Curious about this. Intend on forging a career as a career banker within capital markets. Is it really ruthless (up or out) there, or what? It's hard to break into IB that's for sure, but how hard is it to stay?
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As long as you don't get unlucky with the occasional layoff, it is not hard to make it to the VP or director level - even terrible people are promoted with an extra year here or there if they stay long enough.
At that point you are expected to start generating revenue and that is where you see poor performers downgrading banks when they don't make it to MD at their former bank.
Not that hard to stay in IB because there's so much attrition, and at the senior levels, extreme pressure to generate revenue. Few people want a lifestyle of high stress, on-call 24/7, etc when you can go make great money being head of corp dev or slotting into a low-hours MM PE job. In that sense, moving up is not that cutthroat but IMO a lot of young people really underestimate the IB lifestyle thinking money or prestige will always be their #1 priority
Thanks for your insight! Is this the same for DCM if you know?
Dude. You asked the question. DCM is product. How is any of this non-DCM specific?
Where can I get one of these "low hours mm pe" jobs?
Diligence very carefully + ideally somewhere in your network where you know a guy there and know his hours. Potentially in a T2/T3 city, often closer to LMM than true, known MM players, and definitely pay under market. But they exist.
Not a 9-5 but know plenty of guys working 9-7, 9-8 etc with very little weekend work - deal sprints are obviously worse, but it's a fairly sustainable lifestyle.
DCM or even M&A at BB it’s tough. I was across one of the top DCMs in our industry verticals (I’m a coverage guy). Same guy was MD covering all the sub sectors (and probably some other industry groups) forever. It’s kind of same at ECM and even worse at niche (like converts). Lev Fin and ECM they’d bring up the best guys mostly because it does require more work and volume is higher. Vs DCM guy seemed to have gotten away with one analyst making market pages that applied to everything - it’s just a simpler products. M&A wasn’t that much better than Lev Fin, etc. You basically need the old expert and a functional VP.
Thanks for your insight! I actually really do find DCM and related to be really interesting because of my background coming from a very technical Economics degree (it's not just something I did to enter banking, it's a deep academic interest of mine as well), so I very much want to invest time into becoming a product expert. One of the reasons I want to do product, not coverage or sector.
How would you say someone should go about their career then to differentiate themselves and be successful? I'd really love your input!
I am an Assoc 2 that works in a niche group within DCM.
My observation is that just about anyone who cares at all and has some tact can make it to the VP level in a product group.
A2A promotion is almost a guarantee now, and promotion from Associate to VP also seems pretty attainable.
I think where people get “weeded out” is at the Director level. If you’re going to get promoted to Director the thought is that you have MD potential.
Just my observations.
Thanks for your insight! I really appreciate it. I interned in another product team (securitized products) and there it seemed like there were VPs and Directors who had been around for what seemed like forever. Is it not safe to just coast by at VP level? Of course a long time to go for me, just would like some insight into the structure!
I would never recommend “just coasting” at any level.
That said, like any other title rank, I’ve witnessed a wide dispersion at VP/D levels in how much someone contributes to the team and organization.
I know someone as a VP1 who was given an entire book of business on their own and they have been operating without an MD ever since. I’ve also seen Directors who operate like associates and don’t have much autonomy.
What product?
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