I'm working with a lazy ass VP who refuses to hold the pen on anything and deflects risk onto his juniors and even occasionally those senior to him. The dude is an absolute asshole, extremely lazy, and not as knowledgeable as he should be for a VP, and I'm not sure if senior people know this.
This results in me holding the pen on some crucial workstreams and communicating regularly with the VPs at the other banks/other groups, and generally doing VP level work. It's challenging to do this on top of my normal associate responsibilities (I'm a first year associate fwiw), and the seniors are so busy that I'm not sure they realize.
Should I say something or stay quiet and assume people notice? I don't want to frame it in a negative light and have it hurt my career, but would it help to pull my director aside and say something to ensure I get credit for this? Part of me doesn't want to whine, but you need to occasionally speak up and make things happen to let people know what's going on in order to survive.
Any advice would be appreciated. Should I either stay quiet or speak up strategically is all I need to know.
This is why it is important to pick the right bank and team. Lot of insecure personalities in banking. A. Lot.
Many people in VP roles seem to be in auto-pilot scenarios. As long as the associate and analyst working under them are competent, the VP is golden.
Be prepared for worst case scenario: that your attempt to speak up gets you canned. If you are ready for that, rather than pull aside your MD for a talk, look for opportunities to communicate your efforts/ contributions. Especially opportunities over the phone, since it does not leave an electronic trail that winds up in the VP's inbox. As you start gaining recognition for your efforts, you can be less discreet about claiming credit. Eventually you want to use this recognition to get promoted/ pay hike, failing which you should look to move to a different group/ firm.
Was in a similar situation when I was at a boutique in my first year as an analyst doing my shitty associate's job. Reality is you can't directly call out that you're directly doing the VPs job without making yourself look like the snake who is trying to steal his thunder as unfair as it is. But you should weave into emails and other deliverables that you were the point person on whatever it was and that you are getting credit for the work because you did it, not the VP. Usually, this will become apparent to sr bankers fairly quickly and whether or not they choose to act on it is a whole different question.
If you feel that this is a situation which will persist and hinder your career and overall happiness, I would highly suggest you find another place to work as life is genuinely too short to be miserable worrying about this type of shit. If you feel that you are being wronged and should be getting the undue credit - you're absolutely right, you should. So if this can't foreseeably be amended, then gtfo and find a place where you won't face this predicament. Easier said than done, I know, but launching a search for a new gig will give you mental freedom and clarity from being chained to the thought process surrounding how to navigate this ugly situation. All the best
Lol at my EB I’m analyst and if they trust you you don’t even have Asso/VP sometimes so on some projects you’re doing analyst / Asso / VP job essentially 🤪
Kinda sucks having lazy ass VP tho, But tbh as long as they don’t interfere with me I’d rather have a lazy ass VP who doesn’t look at anything than a painful VP who adds unnecessary work and is a jerk.
I'd be shocked if seniors aren't fully aware of this guy's poor performance.
IMO, this is a win for you, because you're showing you're competent at the next level. Although, I acknowledge it's a pain since you're doing 2 jobs.
This is fairly normal at the associate level (any any level in banking). You are constantly working up a level. At every bank there will are VPs on their way out that will work the bare minimum and deflect the majority of the work onto the associate. Don't say anything - this is a good learning experience and time for you to step up. You'll get credit for it if you do well and are vocal. Good luck.
Looks like we found OP’s VP. Poor advice. He should be paid like a VP if he’s working like one not getting underpaid and overworked for “the learning experience.”
You're in for a rude awakening, man. This is just how the world works.
This isn't really a resolvable situation. The seniors don't really care too much about who's doing what; as long as this VP is being responsive to their demands and questions then he's doing his job and they won't care too much.
My suggestion would be to first discreetly talk to the other Analysts and Associates to see if they have the same experience, and if so, then go to your staffer and have a very tactful discussion with him about it. It's very important to make sure you're not sounding like you're complaining or whining. I would frame it in the context that you are struggling for capacity due to this VP having you do a large amount of work on his projects, forcing you to be less available on your other projects. Then go into some examples of the types of things he's having you do that he should clearly be doing.
I would also start telling the VPs on your other projects that you don't have as much capacity to do things because you're working on this VP's projects. Between explicitly talking to your staffer and being too tied up to focus as much on the other VPs' projects the message should start being communicated, and it would be helpful if other Associates had the same experience and did the same thing too.
But that's really all you can do about it. At review time, depending on your relationship with your staffer, it may also be valuable to make sure he has to mark you down as a reviewer.
I’d love my associates to make me irrelevant. If I have a good team, I want them to drive everything, that’s what I did as an associate and held pen on basically all materials except for occasional industry-specific stuff that the VP told me to leave for him. Of course, I will comment and provide direction as needed and help keep things efficient with clients / seniors.
It’s when I have a crap team that I basically draft the whole book and just get the team to process because I can’t be bothered to iterate with them.
I get that. Holding the pen on decks workstreams, etc. is my job as an associate and it’s generally a good experience to own all of that.
My issue is when it comes to planning workstreams, pushing back, coordinating with other teams, and driving slide creation (these are the pages we are going to present, this is what’s going on it, etc) that is literally the VPs job. What else are they doing if they’re not at least breaking things into actionable steps for juniors?
If your analysts and associates are making you irrelevant, what’s the point of having you on the team?
This could go one of two ways: This VP is smart enough to know that his future in IB depends on cultivating relationships and starting to bring in business, and is betting that any complaints junior bankers have about his inattention to execution will be outweighed by senior bankers seeing evidence that he can generate revenue.
Or he might just be lazy and not doing either job, but in my experience that's usually made obvious to the MD in one (two at the max) deck reviews, where the MD will immediately notice that the analyst and/or associate is answering all the technical questions, prepared all the slides, etc. At that point the MD will just a) work directly with the associate, and b) prioritize getting that associate paid and promoted. If that's going on, the VP's days are numbered.
banks can easily make the VP title redudant and save on costs. Seriously the most useless position ever.
I see it all the time. Seniors are usually the most useless people who bring like 5% of value on projects (a lot of times actually negative value) but take 50% of the bag.
Does the average MD usually bring in new revenue or are they just like working off of existing relationships the bank has had with clients?
Depends on MDs and banks. At my Eb most of the MDs are young and bring in new clients.
That sucks but some VPs have to hold the pen on the modeling now….
This exact situation is when you know it’s time to leave IB. You are now valuable enough to do a VPs job, but aren’t paid like it. Go somewhere else otherwise accept that this is what IB is until you become MD—constantly doing the work for someone senior to you and them getting the credit.
Holding the pen on workstreams is VP level work? Since when?
I'm confused?
The pitch decks in investment banking are extremely simple - often times I saw good 2nd year analysts hold the pen, if it was not associates
So what is the purpose of VPs?
What do you think the VP is supposed to do? Once you become an officer your job should be easy in terms of the actual workflow and all you need to do is review work and get on calls. Juniors should be driving everything except senior level outreach
I would highly advise speaking up against an officer who has worked there for at least 3-5yrs and knows all his bosses (and those are the ppl ones that decided to promote him...)
Seems crazy to try and call out your boss as a first year. You might have more flex if you are A2A but you would probably understand the office politics better and not have to ask this
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