Ibanking vs. Equity Research at Associate level
I currently work in equity research at a bulge bracket firm. I'm a 2nd year associate (I've been out of school 4 years), and last year, as a 1st year associate, my all-in comp was $115k. I moved into research 2.5 years ago from another position (not at an ibank).
I feel like I work a lot and am just not being compensated for it. I work about 7am-7pm during non-earnings season, and usually spend about 5 hours on Sunday in the office. During earnings season, I work 16-18 hours a day for 2 weeks straight. However, most equity research departments also want you to take the CFA, which adds about 10-15 hours of studying per week, and there are 3 levels (I'm taking level I in June). So, here's my question - I'm putting in about 65-70 hours per week in non-earnings season, plus 10-15 hours per week of CFA studying for all of the conceivable future (I will take the final CFA, level III, in June 2013) - so we're talking 80-90 hours a week of "work" if you include CFA studying (which my bank basically requires in equity research to advance up).
My friends in trading made literally 2-3x what I made last year (putting in like 7am-4pm hours), and my friends in banking at the associate level all made in the high $100s to low $200ks.
I feel pretty confident that I would have a shot at a lateral move to banking in my firm at least, especially considering I've worked with a bunch of people in our banking dept, albeit I have no direct ibanking experience. So here's my question - how much do banking associates really work? If they're working the same 12 hours a day that I am (albeit I'm working 7am-7pm and they're working 10am-10pm), and I'm spending my weekend studying for the CFA while they're spending their weekends at the office, our hours are actually pretty similar, and it would make a heck of a lot of sense for me to move into banking if possible.
Also, in addition to knowing what true banking associate hours are like, I'm also curious what banking pay is? I've gotten quotes from my friends, but I've got no idea if they're just inflating their comp.
Thanks very much for any insight here.
That seems very low, you are very underpaid. Know of ER 1st yr Analysts making more than you bro
Really? Our first years come in with a $70k base, and I know they didn't get $40k bonuses (I heard more like $20k).
I definitely feel like I am underpaid, though, and it's getting more and more frustrating every day my boss wants me to work a 12-15 hour day. Any idea what associates in ER at other firms make, and what banking associates make / hours?
What kind of ER firm do you work at? It seems reasonable if you are working off wall street or in a MM/boutique research shop.
Nope, I work at a bulge bracket, i.e. MS, JPM, etc. - one of the big banks. My understanding was my comp was somewhat in line with street this year (equity trading volumes down a lot, etc.), although probably towards the low end of street. Although maybe I am wrong and my firm just really chose to screw the junior people.
Was your Performance Review top-tier? If your answer is no then i guess we solved the mystery. if your answer is yes then you are not at a bb
maybe your analyst is not ranked very high?
banking associates make around 100k base plus 100-125% bonus. hours are normal banking hours maybe a little less than analyst hour (80-100/wk) but really depends on the group.
You are somewhat underpaid - my guess by only $20-30K. Unfortunately for you associate/VP levels is when the gap between research and banking is the biggest - it is just the nature of the business. From now, until you become a senior analyst you should expect $20-40K of raise per year probably nothing more exciting than that (assuming your team doesn't get a bid) - your chance for more money is to move to another firm or try to go for a senior coverage analyst role. If you stick around at a SVP/MD level the gap will pretty much disappear (assuming that you are a senior analyst for a decent industry at a BB firm) - but for no switching firms is your only solution - assuming that someone is willing to pay you more.
Why are you comparing your comp to IBD associates? Titles are switched around and as a 2nd year associate in ER you are comparable to a 2nd year IBD analyst.
Your first year comp sounds street to me given you aren't fresh out of UG but also didn't start in research/another front office role.
Good point - I think of an associate as a post MBA, if you are in an undergrad role you have nothing to complain about
First, this should be in the equity research forum. Second, I picked up on the analyst/associate thing, too, but he said he'd been working for 4 years, so...
something here does not add up. I made more all in than the OP in my 3rd year as analyst, and I was in operations working outside of NY.
The only thing that I could think of is that the performance was in the bottom of the OP's peers, as that is how bonus is determined. Otherwise this is very strange.
I'm technically an "associate" - I joined the firm as an "analyst" and was promoted to associate 1.5 years ago. These are the titles in my firm's directory and are comparable to banking titles. I was given credit for my years worked outside of research - I wasn't brought in as a first year analyst. Now, I'm in a post-MBA position (comparable to a 2nd year banking associate), although most people in research don't have MBAs (research hires way less peope out of MBA than banking does).
My performance review was by all means good to decent. I've spoken to other people in the division, and it appears I'm somewhere in the middle in terms of bonus pay - some paid higher than me, some paid lower than me. If $115k comp is average pay for an "associate" in research, I need to get out, clearly.
Hmmm
After adjusting your logic by a "50% online bullshit discount" we arrive at performance ratings from "good to decent" to "decent to bad". I think you may have been adequately compensated for your performance tier. $115k is not avg. pay for Associates. Could you please do a simple 1 second Google search there's tons of sources on ER comp.
yeah GTFO. Go to IB or go work for a better analyst you totally getting screwed over.
If thats true, your are making way below street. Your all-in is on the low end of what we paid 2nd year ER associates (1 year out of UG) in my group.
Although, I'm surprised you were promoted without CFA level 1.
Associates with an MBA are part of a competitive recruiting pool (just as banking associates are) so they get paid very differently, you were also not a part of the competitive analyst class. Your comp while somewhat below average is not that different from the average. If you want more money and think you can cut it in IB go ahead and try to get a job there. If you think you can get a better job elsewhere go ahead and get an offer - the problem with research is that there is no well defined comp/promotion track the way you have in IB. The upside is that you get to use your head and you have a better chance of making it to the top as well as exit opportunities. Although, long only jobs won't pay you much more than your current positions, and while hedge funds in THEORY pay more you need actual performance to get paid - which believe it or not is tough.
Look, everyone on this board thinks that $200-300K is very easy to make - it is not... - there was a nice discussion about how little an average Wharton grad makes 10 years out (including both finance and non-finance)
All-in comp at $115K is quite low I think.
As a 1st year in BB IBD you are expect to make
70K (Base) + 10K (Sign on) + 50~65K (Bonus) = 130K ~145K.
Although IBD may make more than ER, but you had 2.5 years of experience. You should be able to make more than IBD 1st years IMO. (1st IBD analysts don't really add much value anyway)
Research comp at analyst associate level is always 1-2 years behind same level at IB - you used to automatically lose a year when you switched into IB - ie if you were a third year associate you became a second year associate - don't know how this works anymore
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