Is a Return Offer Really That Easy to Get?
Slightly clickbait title because I would love multiple views of this.
I am headed to a "top" (use of this term will be explained later) independent advisory investment bank for SA in 2023. I am already super concerned about getting a return offer... Not because of my ability to learn or execute or create solid work product, but because of the other interns. This summer (interning at a well-known IB shop) I was shocked at how many fellow interns had family in IB, had taken many IB prep courses, or were from top business schools like Wharton (What else did I expect, haha).
What concerns me is that - even though I have a SA 2022 internship at a well-known independent investment bank - the other interns will come from even better backgrounds (more Wharton, more family connections, more experience) due to the 2023 firm being known to recruit well. If 70% of interns get FT offers at EVR/MOE/Lazard, and 90% are rock stars which are great at their job and have a perfect background... 20% of us are shit out of us I guess. Is it an accurate lens to view with?
Lastly, for those that did SA at well-known independent firms, were the other interns helpful to each other? At my current SA shop, the interns are very quick to compete with each other and constantly are trying to one up others. It has already grown very tiresome and this is early days. I really hope this is not the case when I have the added stress of fighting for a return offer, while working more hours (working 70 now, 2023 firm will be 90ish I think).
The return offer is like a team option in an NBA contract. It will almost always be exercised whenever the contract value (your first year salary plus expected bonus) is in favor of the company (your contributions are expected to exceed such cost).
So yes 70-80% that’s a yes, and if there’s yield issues the company leans forward and says yes to more people and if there’s deal flow issues (recession) the company leans back and pares slightly and is slightly more discerning / picky.
That’s how I would think about it
From what I’ve heard usually people who don’t get return offers don’t fit in with the group culture wise, or fuck something up. It’s not super hard to work hard, be eager, friendly, stay late, etc. for 8 weeks.
If you’re dipping out at 10pm when your team is still grinding or asking if you can go get drinks with friends at 6pm on a Tuesday (heard a kid who did this), it’s gonna reflect badly on you. Just be available when your team is and don’t be awkward/weird and you should be able to get a return offer.
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I am not, but I appreciate your offer. Thank you.
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You don’t need family in IB, IB prep courses, or an Ivy education to get a return offer. You’re doing relatively menial tasks for a fuck ton of hours, all you need to show is a general level of competence (rearranging font sizes and logos isn’t hard, just make sure you tick off each comment after processing it), show a good attitude, and a clear trajectory of improvement (not making the same mistakes repeatedly, being trusted to handle basic workstreams). You’d be surprised how many with shit hot backgrounds you’ve listed think they’re above the standard intern tasks and get careless with their attention to detail or show a shitty atttitude as a result.
The way I see it, most banks (with some exceptions) hire summer analysts with the intention of converting them. So the 10 weeks is basically an exercise in not giving them an excuse to not convert you. As long as you demonstrate you're willing to work hard, don't make mistakes and aren't awkward around your team, you'll get that return offer.
For my SA last year, the only people who didn't get converted were guys with really weird personalities, or realised they didn't want to do banking after getting in and so put in minimal effort.
who doesn't? ive heard GS
I'm in APAC so things might be a little bit different, but typically it's GS and MS who pull these stunts.
I can give some perspective as someone who has been involved from both sides of the issue. I work at one of the independent advisory firms (EVR/PJT/CVP) and we would never give out more internship spots than available spots. Note this is not necessarily true for all firms/groups so take it with a grain of salt. Everyone hired for the summer, in my opinion, has the ability to succeed and get the offer; that is, everyone is smart enough.
Those who don't get the offer are typically not putting in the work (leaving early/abandoning their team and not available enough), generally not likeable, and made some egregious mistake(s) that were uncalled for. If you put in the effort and are a normal person you have a very high chance of the return offer not matter what background you're from.
OP here. Thank you for your insights; I appreciate it. It is great to hear that they do not over hire.
This is patently false going into a recession lol
The devil you know and have trained for 10 weeks is usually better than the one you don't. There's always a certain percentage of people who realize they don't want to do IB and stop trying, don't get along with the culture, or just generally don't work that hard. Very few people who don't get a return offer are super surprised... there are usually issues brewing all summer. If you are friendly, nice, work hard, you will be fine.
Having competitive interns is shitty, but everyone is a high achiever and wants to do well. My best advice is not to get competitive and try to foster teamwork as much as possible. People will notice if you're mature, not throwing people under the bus, teaching other interns when you're stuck, etc - IB is a team sport.
Also if it helps most interns don't average anywhere close to 90 hour weeks during their SA, even at sweatshop groups - HR really discourages that bc there's been some overwork scandals/deaths, and interns are less likely to accept return offers if they work like that all summer. You will be thrown to the dogs for sure when you start FT, but your intern hours will be closer to 70 at most BB/EBs.
Quick question, this is dumb because hitting my desk next week. But when do we know when to leave exactly. If our analyst tells us we can leave early do we actually not leave and just stay just in case , if so what do we do during those times.
Not a dumb question. When I was an intern back in the day (sweatshop group, FWIW) my mental rule was I stuck around until around 9-10pm (excl. Fridays/weekends obviously) if I was having a slow night - most FTs left between 12-3am. Take a lap between 8-10pm, depending on the group, see if anyone wants you, but if your deal teams tell you to go home then go home. Definitely do not stick around for hours on end with no work, it's actually kind of annoying as a FT watching interns at 1am who have no work and have been told they can leave. Analysts also know interns are in a weird position with leaving times.
Things have changed since COVID and some groups allow you to go home around dinner. If you are WFH would just keep your status green until whatever time you decide to log off. Note - sounds so stupid/facetimey to be looking at statuses I know, not something I ever would advise once you're FT. just as an intern if someone goes to chat you and it says "Away 3 hours" it looks like you've logged off early even if you're just sitting on your couch waiting for comments. If you can get Teams/Skype/whatever on your phone, you can keep it alive on there and don't have to be tethered to your computer
Not at BofA this year…
why?
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