LMM IB Analyst Offer or Top MSF?
I graduated from a non-target in the NY/NJ area back in December and interned at a lower MM boutique IB for 8 months.
Today the same firm offered me an analyst position and will pay for my my FINRA licenses exams. I will be the firm’s first and sole full time analyst.
On the other hand, I recently got accepted to Vanderbilt's MSF program with not much scholarship money, so I will be taking out 75k in loans.
Should I take the job offer or do the MSF to land an offer at a known MM bank next year?
Take the analyst offer and don’t think twice. I’ve literally never met anyone in IB with an MSF.
Vandy MSF pipelines into a lot of IB, but id also say do Analyst.
I know quite a few people in my BB that took one.
when did you apply for vandy?
Early April - got called for an interview a week later and got my offer late last week.
Can you do the analyst and defer a year? And then see your options then?
I can but financial aid won’t be available
Aren’t you already paying full freight (or nearly)? Sounds like a non factor
I would take the LMM offer first. The market is still unclear, with many firms postponing the start date to the late fall or even early next year. I can imagine this year's FT market would continue to be very tough. I'm not saying you couldn't find a better offer with Vandy MSF, but I would expect the process to be very competitive. Sometimes, recruiting is more of luck than competence.
If you are leaning towards going to Vandy MSF, I would recommend talking this with the firm and try to not burn the bridge. Just in case, in the worst case, I would still have a place to go.
Where Do you see firms making analysts start later? My firms starting soon. And want a break lol
Take the LMM offer. I did Vandy MSF and I got a decent MM offer out of it but it was already somewhat a crapshoot to get better than MM before and with the economy right now it will probably be even harder. Save the 75k, go do LMM for a year and then lateral to MM. In this scenario you make money instead of spending it and have 1 year of real work experience, so I think you’d be better off a year from now. It’s a great program tho, but it’s more geared towards people that can’t break in without it, which sounds like is not an issue for you.
Doing Vandy MSF rn, good program but shitty job market. Take the offer and run away with it
How did recruiting go for people in the program? Would you still consider this the top MSF
I feel that people with good experience who grinded hard got offers, but the outcomes are still nowhere as good as last year's. I think the MSF reputation is still good but not sure that this years students are as bright as the previous one's. That being said, the main challenge is that firms simply were not recruiting so the main challenge will be the macro economy and not whether vandy's msf is very good. you can still do it after 1 year of experience if the markets get better but for now don't think twice and take your offer
This is tricky - very tricky. Logically, it makes sense to actually work in IB and make money as opposed to paying for school, as others have said. This is also what I would’ve recommended with 100% conviction about a year ago.
However, as someone who went the LMM IB to BB lateral route, I can tell you that banks treat laterals very differently from “homegrown” analysts (i.e. much worse). You also won’t get the same opportunities even if you outperform the homegrown peers (because you’ll actually make certain seniors look bad if you outperform the hand selected intern -> full-time coworkers).
I know it could seem like a far away consideration, but definitely something you need to keep in mind. By going to a MSF, you might lose a year, but if you can become a part of the intern -> full-time crew somewhere, you might gain a year down the line.
What do you mean by " won't get the same opportunities"? Just curious why banks treat laterals vs homegrown analysts differently.
because you’ll be joining another analyst class midway through, and the MDs will have worked with the current full analysts since they were summers and then for a year
i disagree that lateraling isn’t a good option, but at the end of your 1-2 years you won’t have the same goodwill as the first years built up
I do want to lateral but def not to a BB. Would making the switch to a known MM be just as hard as you described?
Take the offer without question. MSF is challenging to recruit from - you're just giving yourself a shot at this summer's FT recruiting which will be nil this year
Better to fuck than watch imo. Go with the bank and lateral to where you want to be
Amazing analogy.
eye-watering
Unless you can only see yourself working at MF PE or a top HF and would hate anything else (not sure why), then the risk reward makes no sense for the MSF. All you need to do to break into this industry is get your foot in the door and the door is wide open for you.
Just curious- what would all-in comp look like at your firm? Has anyone exited previously to a top MM/BB?
I actually went to Vandy MSF during the COVID year where everyone was super rattled that they wouldn't get jobs (there was almost no FT recruiting) and I think everyone in my class that actually wanted banking got it. When all was said and done I think my year placed really well and I don't think anyone regretted spending a year in Nashville since it was really fun and we had a strong cohort.
In terms of placement, I agree and disagree with previous posters. Yes, Vandy has you target MM firms but myself and others in my class got BB, EB and MF PE interviews while we were there. I think the whole MM stigma around the program is that a lot of the kids who enroll just don't have a fucking clue about the whole recruiting process and ultimately just have to be realistic with what they can accomplish which is an offer from a MM bank. Also I'm of the opinion that the career management coaches are totally useless and are just looking to pad their employment stats so they push kids into taking the first offer they get (typically a MM that they have an established pipeline with e.g. BlackArch in Charlotte) and not shop around for better opportunities. I do think the Vanderbilt name on your resume does help and I definitely benefitted from it when I was going through my recruiting processes as an MSF, lateral interviews and my buyside interviews.
Personally I think you need to assess where you are in terms of ability to execute in interviews from both a technical and behavioral standpoint. If you go do the MSF and you are a smooth operator when it comes to networking and interviewing I'm pretty sure you can end up at a BB like Barclays or a good MM like Jefferies, heck you might even be able to slide into a seat at a top EB. The fact you've already worked in banking probably puts you at a considerable advantage in comparison to the rest of the class since most will have at most done a BS summer at a random chop shop putting together buyer lists.
All that being said, I think that if you believe deep down the LMM boutique you've got a full time offer at actually would give you the platform to lateral in a year I'd take the guaranteed income today vs. taking out the loans for the prospect of getting a better offer cause the whole recruiting game is a fucking crapshoot at the end of the day.
***EDIT****
Also wanted to add that the financial aid thing is just a play from the admissions department to lock you in, there's probably a better chance of you getting more money next year if you're on them early about aid just cause their scholarship pool resets at the start of every calendar year.
***EDIT 2****
Wanted to also address the whole lateral thing mentioned by other prospects in the thread. As someone that actually went through the lateral process I strongly believe its not as easy that WSO says it is. If you work for a no-name bank like OP has implied it's really hard to get through the resume filter. Even during the good old days of crazy COVID recruiting, I had friends at no-name places that had a full year of experience that barely got any looks at weaker MM banks (e.g. BGL types). If you want to move up the hierarchy you need to be at a bank that people have actually heard of before.
What do you think of working at a LMM boutique then doing the MSF?
I think it's really one or the other. If OP does a year there he'd be ~1.5 years out of school and at that point it'd probably make more sense to stay in the workforce for 1 more year and then try to get an MBA. The MSF really just makes sense on paper for people who at most 1 year out and that would fit OP's timeline since I'm assuming OP is planning on enrolling for the cohort that starts this July.
Just an FYI I made the comment about the financial aid more so the knowledge is out there since I know kids apply earlier than he did and I wanted it generally to be known that that's the admission department's go to tactic to lock kids in.
I’ll add that the 2nd half of that school year is when banking hiring really picked up (spring 2021) and everyone with a pulse got a job. Most kids got their offers during that time but everything else above is accurate. I think if it wasn’t for that, hiring would have looked a lot different. You should try and get some insight on this years class, I keep seeing lots of kids signing corp dev, portfolio management, etc. roles on LinkedIn which might be an indicator that many had to pivot to Plan B after not getting banking, which isn’t surprising with layoffs that are going on.
Were people in your MSF class accepting full time offers or internships?
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