Is it true that all young MD's in Investment Banks are from the trading division since they can show objective P&L stats?
During my BNP Paribas SA internship there was a trader who had just made MD at 28; seems impossible in IBD. Am I wrong for thinking this?
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Upvote. My goal is to make MD before 30 so that's why I am asking. Probably impossible I know lol
You should recalibrate your expectations
No I think it is a totally realistic goal. MD before 30 and then billionaire before 45. Pretty do-able honestly speaking if you put in the work and do it in a clever way.
I'm joking btw lol
half the kids on here spent their high school being put in lockers - they don't understand sarcasm
I’m in Europe IB so generally people start as analysts older than in the US, but I have never ever seen an IB MD that is under 30. Since industry knowledge, track record and especially network is crucial in order to bring in deals and revenue, it would be very rare to have a sub-30 year old with those skills, trustability and network (for a BB/EB).
More probable for like a tech boutique advising startups or younger companies with younger founders/mgmt.
Titels in markets are different than ibd
I don't think so actually. The titles are exactly the same and with roughly same base pay usually.
They are, and promotion cycle differs. Not hard in Global Markets
Only MD i’ve seen that got the promotion before 30 is a specialized MD in a MM bank who got it when he was 28 so yeah very very rare.
You are correct, at a BB making MD before 30 is possible in S&T and virutally impossible in IBD.
Most markets programs require 2 years at each position, so you can in theory (and it happens in practice) make MD at 30.
Also another thing to note is that comp is not as restrictive in S&T relative to IBD, so you could on paper be an associate but be comped like a Director. For example, when Hamza Lemssougguer was an associate at CS he had MDs reporting directly to him, and I refuse to believe he was being paid less than them.
Thank you for you're response. So if I start at 21 I have a chance of becoming MD at 29 :)
Was at a top MM bank and someone made MD right around 30 - minimum there was 2 analyst + 3 associate, but you could theoretically do 2 years as VP and one as director which would be 8 years to MD which would mean 29-30ish.
The issue is you need to prove you can bring in business to make MD, and it would be very challenging to be a 28 year old director and have the respect needed to win engagements. So theoretically possible but just highly unlikely, even for a top performer
I understand yes it would be very difficult in IBD. Though personally I am aiming to enter S&T.
I worked with a guy who made it at 31/32 at an MM - he was very smart and thought he should’ve gotten the nod at 30 but was told he needed more grey hair and senior execution reps.
Know a few that made it right at 30/31. Did 2 years at An, 3 years at Aso, 4 years at Vp. Just worked there way straight up, stayed with the same group and firm.
Most of the MDs I know who made it by 30, which were not alot, were in trading and directly contributed to a PnL.
That being said, I know a handful of kids who made around 33 in investment banking.
It’s like anything in life, you need a mix of hard work, mentorship and a little luck (like a few seniors above you leave and you step up to fill that gap).
In the US, generally a person graduates at age 22 in June and prob start in a BB or equivalent FI corp in the following few months (Aug or Sept). Starting off they must be analyst for at least 2 yrs minimum sometimes 3 depending on the FI. 22+3 = 25 yrs old. If you make it to be Associate that's another 2 - 3 yrs as an associate. 25+2 = 27 yrs old. If they perform well enough to be VP next then that's where they kind of stay static a bit or unless he/she is an extremely good performance to get recognized, usually falls within 5yr +/- range. 27+5 = 32 yrs age at minimum if just standard corporate ladder route without acceleration. So it's very unlikely/rare occurance to make it to MD before 30. From 32 end of VP, your next route is to be Dir, which that is indefinite can be 10+ yrs before even thinking about being MD. Of course this is all just based off what I been seeing over the years in the field. Haven't seen or met anyone that moved/jumped ship which accelerated into MD before 30. Not saying it's impossible; just haven't seen it (yet) in my career life time.
In practice it’s certainly possible to make MD by 30.
That being said, I’ve noticed that “title inflation” has become fairly aggressive over the past few years (probably for retention, diversity and marketing/pitching purposes). I personally don’t think the MD title carries the same weight as it did 10+ years ago.
Whats the point? You end up hitting a glass ceiling very early in your career and become a shooting duck when things go south i.e poor pnl on a particular year. (Banks tend to be more forgiving and lenient towards juniors when it comes to firing, especially in Global Markets) Of course, there are truly exceptional good star traders that deserves this early promotion as they can provide consistent strong pnl, even during bad years. But can you?
There are few investors and management teams that would trust their billion dollar exit to a 28 year old.
This is the truth. Everyone focused on doing the year per level math and saying it’s possible which really isn’t relevant.
In reality moving up too fast can stunt your growth and then you’re a walking deadman at 30 because you’re expensive and no one is going to hire you as you most likely don’t have the judgement, connections, and experiences to lead a company through a transaction event.
Its unfortunate that things are stuck this way. Age and experience are not necessarily a sign of wisdom and competence. A young MD can be much more competent than a 50 year old MD, and vise versa.
This isn’t trading. Younger bankers likely haven’t had time to develop relationships with CEOs and corporate development teams to know who is buying your client, how much they are paying, when is the right time, and how to position it.
These typically aren’t things you can understand without going through several deals and having the experience of failed deals
As an analyst, it is hard to do your work and call a bunch of corp dev people to get to know them.
I believe there’s an analyst in London at a US BB that started at 20. (Born 2002.) That’s also one in a million though.
Not impossible. You would need to start young and also join a bank where the analyst stunt is 2 years.
BofA?
Very difficult. Usually takes 10+ years at a BB. It's especially difficult in Europe where a lot of people do master's and take gap years before their bachelor's and between bachelor's and master's. Very very common to see people that are ~25 years old when they start as an analyst in Europe. As such, best case scenario many Europeans make MD at 35-40.
Macron became an md at 31, right?
obv, special scenario lol
Only MD under 30 that I’ve personally heard of was BofA (options trading though, not IB)
Thank you for the info. This confirms what I was thinking, young MD's only really exist in S&T because there are no fix programs in S&T, you rise if you are good and if not you can stay at VP level for 15 years or get fired very easily.
I would say IBD has a higher level of job security whilst S&T division has much lower job security (most get fired at leats once or twice in their careers) but it is a meritocracy in the sense that if you are good you will rise, whilst IBD MD path is mostly about connections only (still relevant in S&T of course).
Some wunderkinds have done it in S&T - Kunal Shah graduated from Cambridge at 21 and was made MD at GS 6 years later as a macro prop trader. MD at 27 and Partner at 31. There's a VP at GS in Inflation Trading who graduated at 17, started at 18 and made VP at 24.
35 is a realistic goal if you start right out of school. 2 years analyst, 3.5 associate, 3 VP, 4 director
Yes, this is an optimistic but realistic goal, assuming you stick it out that long. But what, like 10% at most decide to stick it out / don't get canned or plateau? I'm unfortunately older than 35 as a Director because I started 5+ years later but making a million dollars in your mid 30s is a really nice life. You can afford a kid in NYC without sweating it too much lol. And if you bank your bonus, you can retire in your mid 50s with a $25mm NW. That's not f**k you money but you can easily have an annual budget of $1mm cash a year without touching your principal.
Lol I was considered rich in my public school because my parents had a household income of $110k but $1mm a year without working and $25m NW is "not sweating it". NYC is different.
My VP is only 25. He will prob make MD before 30. He was an early promote idk how he did it.
bump
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