Mediocre Groups/Analysts
Its been tossed around this board that people who are in top groups and get top bonuses usually land the hot PE gigs. What do analysts in mediocre groups at "mediocre" BB (CS/JPM/UBS/DB) do after their stint? Or those that didn't get the top bonus?
Do they just go into smaller PE Funds? Is that not a bit dangerous regarding job security?
Any way these "normal" analysts can break into top shops? What is more important to break into a top shop, your bonus number or the quality of your group?
I'll be starting full-time this upcoming summer and I am not in one of the "top" groups, but an average group in a regional office, but I want to go megafund PE afterward. Should I look to lateral after one year? What else can I do to improve my chances?
I'd say your bonus number and the quality of your group are equally important. Don't underestimate the ability of your MD to make a phone call for you.
As far as Megafund PE, the same groups tend to place into them year after year. I wouldn't be in love with your chances unless you do something exceptional. Mind you - there are those that make it from average groups - just the path is much steeper.
So what happens to analysts, who are not amazing? Lower PE and HF? Transfer to a MM as a 3rd year analyst?
Yea all of the above. However, if you're a star at HLHZ they'll still probobly favor the lower rated CS guy.
CS/JPM/USB/DB are hardly "mediocre" banks. If you have an opportunity to work for anyone of the four, you should be thankful.
I don't know what's the matter with some of the people on this board with the "GS/MS or nothing" attitude.
I know that they are not mediocre banks and I will be working full time for one of the four. My only point was that "mediocre" groups from GS/MS will still place well while "mediocre" groups from CS/UBS/JPM/DB won't place as well. I was just wondering how analysts from the average groups at those BB could get into megafund PE.
Again, should I look to lateral from my regional office to NYC or into GS/MS after one year?
Guys/Gals at CS/UBS/JPM place well, DB not so much.
Don't discount your bank, especially since you are at a regional office. Depending on your locale, they could be the top banks there- example, CS/UBS for Chicago.
Just focus on getting top bonus and you should be able to place in a decent shop. PE market may not even be hot when you want to place there.
Where regional are you in Scotty? You know that UBS and CS are good in Houston LA, and SF as well in addition to Chicago.
JPM SLF (Syndicated & Leveraged Finance) over any other leveraged finance group on wall street...including GS and MS.
Really? Is there a particular reason? I would take MS Lev Fin over JPM SLF just because getting into JPM SLF's sponsor subgroup is a crapshoot. My good friend in SLF is not getting a great experience and has very little exit opps. Besides, at JPM where you want to be is FSG, not SLF. At least at MS you know there's no balance sheet so you won't get stuck doing L+250 Term Loan A renewals...you'll be doing mostly high yield and LBO's...
I think it would be a tossup between MS LF vs. JPM SLF, in the end I would probably take MS just for the name though.
At JPM you will do some some TLA amendments and other BS deals, but you should be able to close a dozen deals in your first year, some of which will actually be decent resume deals.
But at MS, you will just be doing staples for the M&A team, and will maybe close one or two deals a year, solely because of the M&A team.
Thank you for the information.
I will be in Houston. I only found this board after I accepted my full time offer and it seems that exit opportunities are not tremendous from there. At the time, I was just happy to get a full-time offer at a BB.
I have read this board and it seems that unless you are from UBS LA, MS or GS it is nearly impossible to even get considered for the megafunds.
Obviously the only thing I can control is my bonus, so I will work hard on doing that. Anything else that I can do to help my chances?
I know two analysts (one at CS M&A in NYC and the other at UBS M&A NYC also). The CS will be working at TPG and also had few other prominent funds while the UBS guy will be working at Carlyle. Both of these guys were among the top 5 analysts in their class and definitely the best in the M&A group. If you're really good, you can be at any of the BB other than GS/MS/UBS LA and still get chance at megafunds. In houston, UBS/Lehman and CS are better in energy than GS/MS. Be a superstar (top analyst in the office) and you'll have good shot at landing interviews. The lifestyle at megafunds are worst than BB banking. Many of the analysts I've worked with want to join middle-market ($750 MM - 2B) funds for better lifestyle. You will have good chance of getting into HBS or Wharton from these funds also.
Proof that this whole top3 group thing is not always true on doostang.com:
Someone's profile: The Carlyle Group Senior Associate, July 2003 - July 2005 Thomas Weisel Partners Analyst, June 2000 - June 2003
Dude as hot and as important as Energy is right now, just work your ass off and you will definitely have a shot at a good exit opp...
"I have read this board and it seems that unless you are from UBS LA, MS or GS it is nearly impossible to even get considered for the megafunds."
The people on this board would also have you believe that if you don't go Wharton for UG and then directly land in GS TMT by the time you are 20, you are going to end up a loser for life (at least that seems to be the general consensus).
I don't buy it and you shouldn't either. Spend an hour and browse through the profiles on top PE groups like Carlyle, Blackstone, etc. You'll see that there are a number of analysts and associates from top groups, but there are also a significant amount of state schoolers and bankers from less known groups. Check it out.
I would note though that it appears as though it is EXTREMELY critical that you go to HBS for your MBA. That may sound obvious, but the number of post-MBA hires from HBS is dramatically higher than any other school. That may be skewed upward due to sample bias, but I doubt it.
but as an analyst...does it matter whether or not your deals are there b/c of the M&A team or because your group has good coverage guys? NO...all that matters is that you are on the deals to begin with and get experience.
only at the higher levels (VP and above) is the fact that your group does a lot of staples hurting your career.
the staple is pitched by whoever is doing the sell-side...so for MS M&A, MS does the staple
Ha, I know what a staple is. I meant you think MS (a pure play bank that has never needed help to win M&A business) would be more likely to pitch a staple than JPM (a bank known more for their balance sheet financing than stellar M&A - esp. compared to MS)?
It's the same at GS, Leh, and other pure plays, what else is the LFG going to do with their time? Since they're not like JPM, BAS, or Citi and spinning their wheels on four B / strong two B acquisitions / refinancings, and with exclusivity of financing increasing, people have to do something to fill their time.
EDIT: MS/GS/whoever is not doing the staple to help position their M&A team unlike JPM/BAS/Citi, they're doing it so that they can put their hands in the cookie jar twice. Why would you settle for a few million on advisory (although its riskless) when you can get almost 2% and 3% on a 1st / 2nd Lien (HY), with a enough flex to make it almost riskless.
Are staple financing deals still useful learning experiences for analysts?
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