Moving from IB to commercial / corporate banking or a debt fund?
Not sure if it's because we've been super slammed as to why I'm having these thoughts but what are the forum's thoughts around moving from investment banking to commercial banking or corporate banking? Anyone have experience doing so? I'm getting kind of sick of the weekend work and not really having control over my life anymore and not being able to go on vacations and being constantly stressed tfo. What position would I be up for in a commercial bank if I'd exit as an associate (I assume it'd be an associate at a corporate banking role) and how much would I make at each? How does the work differ at both (I understand that commercial banks generally deal with smaller clients)? I've always heard that the hours for both (especially commercial banking where you clock in 35-40 a week but can still make solid money) have been incredible; has this remained true through COVID even?
Also open to looking at credit investing roles (I've heard they have better hours than equity investing roles, but may be wrong) - are there roles where you make similar money to IB (like 2/3 or 70%) but work 40-50 hours a week?
bump
Bump. Feeling incredibly burnt out. If anyone could let me know of their experience in switching from IB to commercial or corporate banking that'd be really helpful. Similarly if anyone has moved to a debt fund from IB and what the work, hours, comp and lifestyle are like that would be great...
I can give you commentary based on my experience in commercial banking - I'm also in the process of CB interviews, so know a bit about that from networking/talking to corporate bankers. Keep in mind, my perspective is on Canadian banking so things might be a little different south of the border.
Commercial Banking:
Hours: 20-25 actually working in WFH on slow weeks, up to 60-70 on the busiest weeks of the year in office/WFH.
Pay: Start out of school around $70K CAD All-In, by the time you're a senior analyst/relationship manager you can expect $120K all-in (usually a few years in).
Deals: Deals are smaller, but work is intellectually stimulating (I don't build DCFs, but still work within smaller-scale models, do comps, precedents, financing for M&A and LBOs, and work within those models), client interaction happens from day 1 in any role, you're nobody's bitch, everyone needs you, and you get to grill CEOs/CFOs of mid-market companies - especially true in Canada where there's only a few commercial banking options and every client is sort of locked-in due to switching costs.
Corporate Banking:
+10-15 Hours from Commercial Banking
Pay starting out is roughly $105K as an analyst all-in, scales up to $250K all-in as a VP in Canada at a big 5 I think.
Deals are bigger size, get to work on syndicated transactions, interact with IB product groups, but the work is more dense and there's very little client interaction until Director+.
As a commercial banker, I have 4 weeks of vacation, carry over 1 week (so technically 5), and also get 6 weeks in anniversary years (5,10,15,20,25,30) which is neat - I always take all my vacation and never have any issues getting coverage.
Exit Opps in both of the above are lower than IB, can't really do PE tbh but your situation might be different since you have IB experience. Why haven't you considered applying to PE?
Thanks man, really appreciate that, it's really helpful to hear and sounds awesome being on the comm. banking side..
As to why not PE - I just know that it's going to be "same shit, different day." Just so sick of weekend work and working a minimum of 9-10/11 everyday, especially if you can still clear 6 figs working 40 hours a week or less and then can spend your time chilling or working on a side gig.. I'm constantly stressed and have ridiculously high BP, and am just overall not happy at the moment. However, this is why I also asked about a debt fund because to my understanding the lifestyle is a bit better there than traditional PE and comp is still solid (though of course depends on where you'd go).
And to be honest, I'm not overly concerned with exit opps so all good with me haha
Out of curiosity, Commercial Banking sounds like a gig with decent comp, wlb and client interaction, why the interest in switching to Corporate Banking?
I'm bored, it's too easy, and I want to steepen my learning curve again with corporate banking - I'm admittedly a bit A-type.
I also think about how if putting my startup aside, only relying on my main job - in commercial I peak at $150-200K in 15 years, in corporate I could peak at $500K+ in 15 years and have optionality to go to IB if I desire to. I can also always come back to commercial from corporate in a more senior position if I start to value WLB more because commercial banking values cashflow lending experience a lot (which you mainly get in corp banking).
I would also caution that Corporate Banking hours and workload can differ greatly depending on the firm. Not IB levels for the most part, but speaking from experience, your hours can still be brutal and you might end up working more weekends than not. For reference, earliest I have logged off in long while was yesterday at 11pm/12am (looking like today will beat that though!)
Are you in Canada or US? How often are you working hours like that? If you're working til midnight isn't that like 80 hrs a week basically?
70-80 is the norm i'd say. Some weeks are worse, some are better.
CB analyst here - this week is tracking for 90. It really is inconsistent. The light weeks are light, and the bad weeks are just like bad weeks in a lot of IB groups.
That sounds rough. Is that primarily because of COVID, or is it normally like that?
Can you elaborate a little on how your CB group is housed? Is it part of the IB Arm? BB or Big 5 or Regional? Is this just a product of culture in your group or across the board for all CB analysts? How often do the bad weeks come and are you forced to cancel plans made outside of work for it usually?
Not the OP you're responding to, but I'm in CB housed within CIB at JPM/Citi/BofA. My hours are usually around ~70, pushing up to 80-90 during bad weeks but concentrated during the weekdays. Usually I know in advance if my weekend will blow up which makes it easier to plan. This seems to be pretty consistent across CB groups across the bank. In the past we would have stretches of light weeks where most people got off early, but that hasn't really happened since COVID began.
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