Can’t help but feel like I made such a stupid mistake.
A2A out of undergrad. Now VP age 29. Made $500k last year for last associate year. At a BB. Prob work 60-70 hrs a week.
Feeling like the scale of pay is never going to be enough / don’t have enough upside in banking. It’s not even the work and hours that bother me, it’s the thought that my upside is capped.
Wondering why I didn’t make the move to some buyside seat.
Anyone else agree or in same position? Or am I just being an unappreciative moron?
If you’re really smart and can obliterate case studies, you could probably land a hedge fund seat. I know two vps that left EBs to become hedge fund analysts. One does event driven and the other does tmt long/short. I also nearly got an event driven seat as a vp
You’d be a non traditional candidate but hedge funds aren’t nearly as strict as pe about hiring folks that follow a set career path. Only issue is that if you were gonna blow away your interviews and case studies, you probably would’ve found your way to a hf by now
I agree, and do not think I would blow away the case studies if I am being honest.
Think my skill set / temperance is more suited for PE. Been thinking lately about trying to make the switch and taking a demotion. Being an A2A still helps with the story some from what I have seen. Obviously finding a good seat that is worth taking the short term comp hit for the long term potential is the tricky maneuver
FWIW, I have never a banking VP lateral to PE. It seems like there are few PE VP seats, which lots of experienced PE associates pursue.
I also doubt PE shops would allow you to interview for associate roles, even if you wanted to.
If you have a great relationship with a sponsor, I guess you could ask for their suggestions.
Look at how people outside of the USA are living. Being capped at 500k is a dream for most people. Be more grateful and stop complaining. Maybe you should go to Romania or to one of the Caribbean countries that you love and try to live like a true local. The biggest complaint you have is that the equinox sauna is not hot enough or that your double chicken from chipotle is not a true double portion.
Totally agree, I have been blessed with many opportunities that most in the world have not.
Just expressing how I feel, like I have wasted some of my potential.
PS. Never been to the Caribbean or Romania :)
Fair enough, but just some food for though
So what? The drive for improvement and to reach the next level pushes people to grind harder.
Should be cautious here. I'm not so sure that people should measure their improvement and "the next level" in monetary terms. Say you get paid 100k more or 500k more in 5 years does that really mean you're a better person? I think taking a philosophical approach makes more sense. Or opening your boundary beyond work.
Yes, fair point. Was just saying that being capped at 500k is a dream for most people. I strive to improve as much as possibel as well, but try to keep the complaints down
Holy shit this comment speaks to my soul. My old equinox sauna was never hot enough (or took too long to heat up, I'm in a tight schedule so I don't have 5 mins to wait). My new equinox doesn't even have a sauna, only steam rooms. When I go in and it's being cleaned or not hot enough or missing the menthol eucalyptus spray (which is most of the time) I get so freaking annoyed.
Omg bro thats crazy
and they say the cities are back…
The Columbus Circle one is too fucking hot. I hate sweating immediately after a damn shower since the Sauna is not in a separate area😤
When my equinox is missing the menthol eucalyptus spray I want to commit war crimes beyond comprehension
People who make quick to judge comments like this have a) never been abroad or left their 5 star resort or b) have a Western bias that assumes only people in the US have a good life.
Few comments to point out.
1) COL is considerably lower in any of the countries you have come up with outside of the small prime area close to tourist locations, so even if you work the local wage in most cases you will have a decent life. You won’t have every single amenity in NYC unless you live in the capital city, but then again most in the US don’t live in such conditions.
2) Work conditions are often better. Again, people will try to point to some African child in a village getting paid $1/day to do physical labor, but these are outliers and they.have horrible conditions even in their own country. In a lot of countries, work life balance is better than the US be it vacations days, overtime laws, and general workload. People here like to dunk on continental Europe salaries and mock them, without realizing they the high salary in the US comes with a high cost.
Bump.
Quite curious, how does the pathway from IB to PE work?
Apologies if I’m reading your post wrong, but it seems like after staying in i-banking for a while, it’s more difficult to move to the buy side.
I know most people either lateral from BB->MFPE or MM->(L)MM PE or MM->BB-> MFPE in their earlier years.
Would have thought, though, that at senior levels you’d still be a somewhat attractive candidate. Would love to hear anything you all have to say, cheers :)
I know comp is capped in IB, and PE comp is much more scalable in the long run. Still curious about your perspective, isn’t being a career banker still a solid career to have?
Yes, harder more time you spend / the more non-traditional candidate you are. It’s possible, but much harder
I have known many people who have said this. If I can offer some advice, it's that there are many ways to make lots of money with a background like that, and to some extent you need to consider that most people who make a lot of money do non-traditional things at some point.
A very good point. Something I think about often. It’s harder since there it’s not as clear as “get this job and you earn $X”, but realize most people that make the real money are owners of businesses / have equity in more risky endeavors.
Maybe at some point I take some swings for home runs if I really feel like banking at a certain point is not going to offer enough upside
I don't really follow how you think your comp is capped right now you just got promoted and will see a nice bump and then again at D level? It'll scale at 2x in just 4 years so what's the issue ? Do you want it to scale to 5-10m or?
Also curious
Fair point that banking pay scales nicely compared to any other job. Guess what I mean is that the most realistically I am going to earn in this job (based on what I have seen, correct me if you think differently) is $2-3mm a year that is taxed at 50% and part in locked up equity.
Know that’s not a small amount of money. But it’s not buying beach houses in Turks & Caicos type money.
how much do houses in Turks & Caicos cost? and why would you need to buy it? I bet on $1m after-tax salary you can live like a king in any part of the world.
I will say I've heard about people sticking with IB complaining about stuff like WLB or not liking their jobs but I've never heard money as the reason. If you want to compare the most right-tail outcomes, then you can be a rainmaker MD or group head or partner and make even more than $1-2m. There was an MD that built out a new group at my bank, relatively small group still but pretty successful and its known that he made close to $10m last year.
Op you have great hours and great pay. Could’ve sworn Senior Bankers at PJT, CVP, EVR and GS make way more than $2-3.
I think you are not thinking about this completely correctly. Banking represents a path to a 7 figure annual income on a relatively risk mitigated basis compared to the other paths you mention. The % of buyside folks or business owners who flame out before getting to a spot to make the big bucks you mention is tremendously high compared to progressively moving up the ranks in banking. Hell, take a look at some proxy statements for public companies and you realize you make more in banking than a lot of C-suite executives. If you end up being a really good MD, I would not say your upside is capped if you can move to a firm that pays you a % of your fees. You are comparing apples and oranges. The question is do you want to give up a relatively straight forward path to a 7 figure income?
agree. OP has solid goodwill at his current place. if he jumped to a buy side role with unlimited (performance based) comp and didn't fit in and got fired in a year, that would be much worse than staying at a place where you're valued and collecting $500k.
This is the right answer. Grass is always greener. 60-70 hr weeks (and on the way down as you hit director and beyond) and making that much is significant. IMO wait it out until MD and then hop over to PE if you still want that. Common enough to move at the top
This is the most enlightened answer on the topic. SB'd. The only issue with staying banking is that the people are 10x worse than in the exits discussed and the work far less interesting
If you can't live off 500k a year, then you have a problem, it's not banking that's the problem.
Where did I ever say “I can’t live off of…..” ? Lol
I realize $500k is way way over the national average.
Does your MD make $500K a year? Is what your MD makes too low for you. Confused on why you feel like upside is capped when you’re making a small percentage of what a good senior bankers make later in their careers
I understand a 15 years old thinking that one's career is linear but you're 29. You can still become a Navy Seal, MD, lawyer and even start 10 startups if you'd really want to.
No surprise the presumably foreigner that commented above teased you. You're proof that at 29, 500k, and a brand job =/= critical thinking.
If you still don't get the message: Grow some balld and make the move or just shut the f up and stay where you're at.
lol I’m not going to get into an internet fight with you
While your post had some valid points, you are bringing a bunch of baggage that isn’t from me here.
This is a post about wishing I escaped to the buyside sooner. Not sure why you are acting like I’m knocking on your door incessantly complaining specifically to you
I'm not anywhere near 30 but is it because deep down you want an equity stake in whatever you're putting 70 hours a week into
Go to private credit at a fund? Compensation model is different w/carry available at a lot of places, you own your portfolio and follow your “investments”, and many have flexible mandates across the cap structure or at minimum equity co-investing alongside sponsors.
This is something I’m considering / targeting doing. And FWIW I’m a 29 yr old sr associate at a bank who probably won’t get promoted this year given there is no deal flow - so don’t feel so bad about where you are at!
You're completely screwed.
As everyone knows from the other threads, your life is over at 30. What's the point of making money post 30? You only have 1 more year and it's clear you won't break 7 figures by then. Just resign and enjoy the final year you have of your life before it's too late.
I thought these thinly veiled humble brag posts only afflicted analysts and associates on this forum. It's now infecting insecure VPs? Wow.
It’s really not a brag post. Think what you want. Maybe I should have just said “well-compensated for banking”, but trust me I have no feelings I’m special because I am banking VP - quite the opposite
Why even dignify these type of questions with a response? You didn't ask for anyone's personal perspective on your priorities. Their approval is worth exactly $0 to you. I doubt they're holding back potentially life-changing advice until you can convince them that you're not really evil and greedy or whatever.
You make FU money in banking in different ways,
Because your comp is not so back ended, by the time you’re 40, you’ve been an MD for 6-7 years, and you’ve made enough money to buy your house, fund your kids college education, etc. As long as you’re not too extravagant at that point you’re taking home a lot of cash to invest every year. Establish an investment program with that (I’ve backed five start ups in addition to more normal investing). Spend your 40s investing those bonuses and you can make that principal FU money.
I don't honestly know a lot of MDs below 35, which you'd have to be for 6+ years of experience by 40? Either that or you meant 50.
If you start as an An, most should reach MD before 35. I know multiple guys who took the straight path, and made MD by 32.
Interesting perspective, thanks
Would be curious to hear more about your investment program and types of startups / process to finding those
Not realistic to advise someone to establish investment programs as a banker. It is very difficult to get OBAs approved at most banks given how stringent compliance is these days.
“It's not even the work and hours that bother me…
it's the thought that my upside is capped.”
This is such a ridiculous thing to say out loud. You would be well served by leaving banking just to reacquaint yourself with the natural world.
Buyside > sellside, this is the permanent truth. I know someone who chose sellside over buyside ( because he likes grinding lol ) and he regrets every single day.
500k in total comp is a great feat. You should be proud and you are able to afford a consistent luxurious lifestyle. But it seems that you think this did not come at a cost. It absolutely did. You lost time, which you will never be able to get back. 80-100 work weeks during arguably the best years of your life. Also, you never were doing ground breaking analysis. Your job at the end of the day is a sales job, so you just slap whatever assumptions you want without rigorous analysis just to push product out. So it was never intellectually driven.
You’re right - I am not doing the latest rocket science or cancer research so I am not doing ‘groundbreaking analysis’ haha
No one is finance is doing groundbreaking analysis
And your job isn’t a sales job?
it is a sales job as well haha, but I would argue you have a chance to really analyze a company.
Are you opposed to a Capital Markets role in PE?
I have a different perspective and 99% of you are not going to like it. BB A2AVP and currently at a boutique.
I'm pretty much set on being a banking lifer. And its 95% because I fucking love what I do. I love generating ideas, competing for fees and closing, and I love doing it at my firm. At one point enjoyment, satisfaction and fit became really important to me. I don't care to be miserable everyday working for dipshits so I can load up on a big comp number at the end of the year.
The bonus number is validation, a reflection of my success and what I'm worth to my employer. I'll fight if I get below what I think I'm worth, and be happy on the flip side. But I really don't live and die by it. I have enough.
My view is if you're really good, the money will generally come. The magnitude obviously differs based on what you do, but for someone like me who comes from not much, the marginal utility beyond a certain point is negligible. And that point is pretty low for me, I'm either a simple guy or an idiot.
Opportunities I explore are ones that actually interest me, where the paycut is reasonable. Went down the path on a strategy & partnerships role for a major league sports team, chief of staff for a mad genius type medtech CEO, shit like that. Ultimately never left because I like what I do.
Why wouldn’t you want to be an MD? MDs at my old bank were clearing $2M+ and some probably a lot more like mid 7 figures. I would only move over if you’re genuinely craving the investment process and have conviction around some space or an asset class.
FWIW, the most vocal group on this forum is college kids not in banking / have 1 banking internship. They will tell you that going from VP -> buyside is impossible.
If you’re truly an A2A2VP at a BB, you have plenty of connections at this point who can get you at least a 1st round interview for an Associate position at a reputable MM/LMM shop. And you clearly will have the skill set for Associate/Sr Associate.
Moral of the story, don’t listen to kids who did a 3 month internship at Raymond James and think they are the source of truth. Is it “difficult” and untraditional? Yes. Impossible? No.
lol bro, you think a reputable PE firm promotes average associates to VP like banking? In banking you can be relatively brainless and make 500k as a junior VP. Like 1 in 5 PE associates make it to VP at the same firm / caliber of firm they started at (assuming it was a high caliber firm to begin with). If you're a rockstar VP at an EB, you're closer to $1mm if you want to compare equivalent high performers in banking vs PE.
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