Where would you go if you had to choose between Morgan Stanley vs. UBS from FIG sector perspective in London.
This is just a thought as both these institutions appear to be the best in the league
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Even though UBS didn't suffer as much in London as it did in the U.S., it still suffered and moreso than MS. MS was stronger before and it still is, so i would take MS.
Im interested to here about this as well
MS FIG dominated in 09...they did the majority of bank TARP refinancings, the restructurings of FNM, etc ..having said that, Ruth Porat (former head of group) is now CFO...if you do go there, you will get killed; analysts get bent over
I really rate the UBS FIG team in London, fantastic group of guys (though rejected offer from them!). That said, UBS as a name has been raped, and MS is still looking solid. In 08 UBS picked up all the interesting deals, and in London I would've said it was an easy choice. This year, who knows. Also, analysts in UBS FIG get worked like dogs too.
How would you rate this bank from a Associate perspective ? Which would you go for ?
In London, UBS if joining straight at Associate. I assume this means you're in it for the long haul, and this puts you 3 years out from one of the premier FIG jobs in Europe. The team has been pretty much on Alistair Darling's speed-dial this year, and it'll be 3 years of hell (Associates pretty much do everything) but then you'll be earning the big bucks, doing the deals on the front of the FT, and the lifestyle will get better.
UBS FIG recently handled the $19.6bn capital raise for BoA to repay TARP and has consistently seen deal flow throughout the recession. Additionally, UBS recently poached several FIG bankers from MS including the new North American Head of Insurance. Solid franchise.
And by handled, do you mean was a QIU? Let's be honest, UBS would have had zero role if it didn't require a QIU and I'm assuming UBS was picked because BoA would NEVER choose another U.S. investment bank to serve in that role.
My guess is BoA's FIG group did a crapload of free work leading up to the transaction and UBS was brought in shortly before deal launch to act as QIU?
Cool. Its seems from all of your views that there is not much that separates UBS FIG London from MS FIG London.
MS FIG is a sweatshop in London at analyst level but is strong. Not fully up on UBS but also hard working I think. Both have deals, depends what geography in EMEA you'd focus on...
UBS fig might be good
but as a bank and a brand - it blows
why limit your future optionality
Unfortunately I agree with GordonsGekko. Do not take UBS if you are starting off your career. The name has been shattered with a kick to the nuts which it'll hardly recover from.
Keep hearing similar things around re image being tarnished etc. etc. However, there are few things that my attention gets diverted too from a london perspective a) key roles in high profile transaction for e.g. RBSI role, Role with Government of UK on dozen of other things incl Lloyds b) Hiring a lot of people from other BB incl MS + the fact that lot of these people are actually joining as well c) Regarded as a culture of the highest order d) turning the corner with a profit in 4Q09
It is a bit confusing and difficult to choose between the MS FIG franchise and the UBS FIG franchise in London. The SG Warburg franchise gives UBS the edge i feel in London/European perspective
The people joining are doing so b/c they're getting paid. shit if you paid me 2x what I make i'll go joint Financial Technology Partners ... the guys jjoining also have experience and will bounce once it isn't worth their while ....
UBS sucks as a brand ... period
Interesting. Is this a blanket statement or only applicable to US.
I am struggling with your analysis considering that it is considered a top notch brand in Europe/UK/Asia
I'm starting to doubt you even have a MS offer. Everyone who got MS would not go on a website to ask such a stupid question. Its a very easy no-brainer to take Morgan Stanley.
i dont have an offer from either of the banks. But its interesting to hear your views nevertheless
UBS has a better dealflow, MS has a better brandname. Go for what you think is more important.
I guess a smart way of saying that is probably you should go for deal experience.
FT deal will act as your brand in the CV.
But at the end of the day, as someone previously mentioned. Its largely to do with what culture you fit in well. If you dont like the culture at MS / UBS you are going to throw up within months.
Spending > 14 hours of your waking up life really means that you need to like what you are doing.
Personally I would rather be working on a deal in XYZ than on a pitch in ABC
Guys, anymore views from a FIG perspective
This is concerning london so its probably a bit different in other regions.
Both seem like good FIG teams in London
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