Underrated or Overrated (Gugg, PWP)?
Hear me out, this isn't another ranking thread. It's just a simple question as to whether the following banks are underrated or overrated.
So people on WSO like to down-talk Gugg and hype up PWP (not an intern at either, but will be recruiting this upcoming year). I did a quick linkedin search to see where some top MFs and UMMs get their PE Associate talent from (most notably BX, Apollo, Carlyle, TPG, KKR, Berkshire, Centerbridge, LGP, SLP, Lindsay Goldberg, H&F, etc). Turns out, Gugg and PWP had the same exact number of prior I-bankers working at the aforementioned firms. Gugg seemed to do better w/ MFs, while PWP did better with what I believe are equally/more prestigious, yet less well known firms like Berkshire. However, point is, exits didn't seem too vastly different from each other (both less than any other EB).
Additionally, the talent that Gugg draws from seems to be of a higher caliber (in terms of UG schools). Their target schools seem to be schools like Wharton, Stern, Cornell, Dartmouth, and Ross, while PWP's is Wharton, UCLA, Emory, Georgetown, Indiana.
Pay at Gugg is higher from what I have seen in online reports. PWP seems to have better exits to bschool.
My question is, why is PWP (at least on this forum) hyped to a MOE/LZD level, while Gugg is forgotten? They both seem more similar than different, and Gugg seems to be on the rise. Am I missing something, or is a choice between the two not as clear cut as many on WSO make it out to be?
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At Evercore, we talk about these comparisons everyday, and you've reminded me how much I miss those conversations. I can't wait to come back and have a giant circle jerk with my ivy league colleagues.
to be honest i cant tell if ur purposely being obtuse or just trolling lol. first of all gugg has 50 analysts per year and im pretty sure pwp has about 15-20 analysts per year. that's like saying michigan places better than harvard for banking cuz the raw amount of michigan kids at banks are higher than harvard..
Lol wasn't trolling but makes sense.
Don't have much to add except PWP is very small (think ~20 an analyst class in NYC), which I'm sure is fewer than Gugg, so if absolute numbers are the same then the relative outcome for a Perella analyst is better. Regardless, both are great firms with bountiful exit ops and the individual matters much more than the firm in this comparison.
Also, this is pretty useless unless you're comparing offers, which I'd assume very few people actually are.
at moelis we have about 35 in NYC i would say. cvp/pwp/pjt about 20, evercore about 50, lazard about 35. i think i've heard gugg has the biggest classes around 50-60, but then again no one really groups them with the other 6 banks
Those numbers all sound right and yep, generally agree Gugg usually isn't in this conversation.
pjt is about 35 if you take into account park hill/secondary, only m&a and rssg around 25-30
honestly at my school most people don't even think of gugg as an EB/when comparing those other banks, imma just be honest. im sure its a great place though for sure
going to a BB myself, but I just wanted to mention that undergrad target schools shouldn’t really hold weight for “ranking” firms without more context.
for example, let’s say PWP is the best opportunity coming out of Emory, so PWP gets the top finance talent from the school.
on the other hand, GUGG might be the 20th best opportunity coming out of Penn/Wharton, so they’re getting more of the mid-level kids.
Disclaimer: I have no idea about the recruiting landscape from either school, and think both firms are great.
in that instance, I’d think: Top Emory Talent > Middling Penn Talent
True
Wonder why OP would delete his post/question.
I got my answer and my original post was littered with ignorance/inaccuracy (as I have learned from the above comments).
I have to disagree with your assessment of your post -- it was a legitimate question. I imagine what you're referring to is that one explanation that there are just as many MF people from Gugg as PWP because Gugg has a bigger class than PWP... but that certainly didn't make your post inaccurate or ignorant; that response simply gave a plausible explanation to your reasonable question.
Also, you posted anonymously -- can't see the need to delete, but hey, it's your post.
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