Why are there no young New Yorkers in the industry?
Can count on one hand the number of people I professionally know, FO roles VP below, that grew up in NYC.
Nothing against those that moved here -It’s wild to me that many of those that relocated here live in a completely different world and have their own cultivated idea of what it’s like. Their perspective rightfully so, but it’s so polarizing and yet confident that if I never went into IB Id have zero opportunity or reason to cross paths with any of my industry peers in a recreational setting.
Why aren’t no young New Yorkers in this industry? many here grow up in poverty = no Ivy League education or a good school = no IB simple
Sure, but its implied I'm talking about those that grew up in Manhattan or similar income neighborhoods. Also implied that an intern would have zero to contribute to this. There's more kids raised here in $250k+/yr households than the entire population of your town... on my point that many who move here live confidently in their own perspective of the city, before they even get here
I mean, most native new Yorkers do not grow up in Manhattan, majority of the New Yorkers from from queens, Brooklyn , Bronx etc. people who grow up in Manhattan are the sons and kids of MDs at most, native New Yorkers don’t really live in Manhattan or have opportunities or pursue high finance jobs
Pretty sure it’s firm and specific group dependent. I’ve got some years in the industry and I would say like 70% of people I’ve come across are from the tri-state area and of those, a ton are from the city (aside from a few years at boarding school and/or undergrad).
Surprised to hear you’re not seeing people from Manhattan at work. Those from the outer boroughs are probably rarer but tons of people from the city.
You will find most of the native new yorkers go to schools like Baruch, and other CUNYs. As you know, those schools are not prioritized by many front office roles. Furthermore, finance is a snowballing industry, and if you don't have a FO internship, or a FO job out of college, it gives infinetely harder to break in. These Native New Yorkers were likely never taught about the system of rules to break into such a role and put at a considerable recruiting disadvantage. I had a pretty difficult time breaking into banking or any front office role, but I am stubborn and really wanted to break in and kept on trying, and was able to. However, most people realize banking is just a job, and I know plenty of smart people who decided not to keep on chasing banking/other role after landing a decent job. Imagine your parents worked at a grocery store making 13 an hr, and now you are making 75k. 75k is not a lot for NY but it is life-changing for someone living in that household. That guy/girl will be content, especially if they are living with their parents and paying maybe 500-600 a month for rent.
To make this more personalized,I was born and raised in Queens NY. My parents were immigrants and came here from Europe. Naturally, I made most of my friends growing up came from a similar background, my block, and from school. Many kids I knew came from humble backgrounds (even the 3rd and 4th gen Americans), and most would send their kids to public school, and Catholic schools which in my area were actually worse than some of the public schools. Among the groups of kids I met you had i)normal kids who just wanted any job growing up, ii)kids whose parents had connections at unions and would be done with schooling after high school iii)kids going to college for the first time, iiii)kids who grew up with parents who stressed education and were tough, or had their own ambitions, or were naturally really smart, would go to schools like Stuyvesant, Brooklyn Tech, or place into Private HS's they could not afford without a scholarship.
Among the groups I listed, kids that are pursuing finance from group iiii have the best chance of breaking into banking, and with some from group iii (this is my group but I knew I wanted to do finance for a long time) and the rare group i. I went to Baruch, and learned about what it takes to break into banking in senior year, putting me at a major disadvantage. It took me 6 years to break into a FO role (banking in my case). Not many people I know of will continue to apply for such roles so far after college, and by that point you are competing against people with relevant experience, and expectations are high, making it more challenging to break in.
I know many stories like this, but this is why I think there aren't as many NYers in FO roles as you would expect to see.
>living with their parents
>paying for rent
Are Americans for real?
In a blue collar household in one of the most expensive cities definitely... someone making almost six figures will help out their parents, not to "pay rent" for the sake of it but more to help make ends meet. 500-600 is essentially your contribution to family utilities, groceries, internet etc and maybe helping your struggling parents with the bills a bit since you don't have to pay for your own place.
this is a lot different than wealthy parents making their teenage or college-age kids pay rent just to "teach them a lesson"
I'm one of the few PE guys who actually grew up in NYC and this is all spot on.
Most of NYC is Queens/BK/BX and their "successful" locals go into a diverse set of industries: a lot of STEM/medicine/law if they go the professional route, but many also do entrepreneurial blue collar work that pays just as well as IB/PE (better in some cases). For example, one of my boys owns a gas station that nets him a very nice living, and have met guys who own bodegas, construction companies, etc. They're all smart enough to do IB/PE, but ended up in different industries because they didn't have the luxury of being around IB/PE people who showed them how to break in.
For a second there I thought you were describing my bookie and you still very well may be. Dude owns a few gas stations, car washes, and some more unsavory places like strip joints in the tri state area.
Everyone assumed this guy wasn’t doing so hot and recently a friend ran into him in the Hamptons driving a Maserati outside of his weekend home. Now everyone thinks he may be the wealthiest guy out of all of us by a long shot and just dresses/acts like he doesn’t have money.
I come from a blue collar background, grew up in Queens and if it wasn’t for the internet, I probably wouldn’t have pursued a career in IB tbh but yea its super rare to see people in finance that actually come from Qns, bkn, bx
that background is so spot on I might have to report you for plagiarism
they are too busy actually having a life and getting laid
Probably because the corps don't care where you grew up.
Went to Stuy/Bxsci and to be frank at least amongst those schools most of these kids do not want to do finance/consulting. Most of the kids I know of are in software engineering, start-ups, getting advanced degrees en route to a PhD or are on the pre-med track. Finance is not a massive bubble. It may seem big because 99% of transplants tend to only stay in Manhattan but 65% of NYCs population is in Queens or Brooklyn.
Also who do you think runs/owns all these businesses/restaurants etc. all over NYC.
This sub tends to heavily overinflate the amount of money you need to live in NYC (or specifically Manhattan).
Went to bx sci and can back you up that finance isn’t even considered as a career for most kids at specialized high schools. These schools lean super stem heavy. Most of my former classmates are either in stem or diplomacy (strong debate programs feed into international relations). I hope that changes at some point in the future but it’s not super likely
so even at stuy/bx sci, which I would consider to be one of the best schools, catch being that it is largely filled with those from smart immigrant households, kids still prefer "med law engineer (and now, tech)" over finance/consulting? I guess I'm somewhat surprise, given it's situated literally right next to all the banks in manhattan
Went to stuy, can relate completely to people not wanting finance or consulting.
Correct
As said above, many NYes self-select out of IB because of school, interest, etc.
Also, don't forget about the truly massive chunk of CT/NJ/LI raised employees... majority of them had parents working in NYC who just chose to raise their kids right outside the city. I wouldn't consider them "true NYers" of course, but given IB has a ton of wealthy kids it makes sense they would come from where the wealthy, white-collar NY employees mostly choose to raise their families.
This is the thing - although there's not a ton of NYC born and raised, there are a ton of NYC Tri-State Area (Long Island / New Jersey / Westchester / Connecticut) folks in banking. For the majority that means an entirely different lifestyle growing up, but I do know those people have a much greater idea of what NYC is like than your Kentucky transplant.
My group has quite a lot of them. Standard put in your two years so you k ow what working is like before you can retire and “work for dad”.
The more established a persons family is in NY the more likely they have a more established professional network too, I think the dispersion across competitive careers is broad and it is giving people a false impression of a lack of interest in finance.
As someone from CT, I feel as though we’re just better
Regarding the argument that the average person in NYC isn't aware of finance positions etc. As someone who grew up in bumhole Midwest small town, why would I growing up here have any better odds of making it to NYC Wall Street than someone who grew up in NYC? I would argue even if your parents owned a restaurant in NYC, you have a far greater chance of meeting someone in the industry than people doing the same thing anywhere else in the country? You probably went to school with someone who's dad worked in the industry. Much less likely elsewhere. I think growing up in NYC makes the odds of being exposed to this industry infinitely higher than most places in the country because of how much finance is in NYC relative to the rest of the country.
So maybe something is different about the upbringing of growing up in NYC? Maybe the kids who grew up in NYC take the city and it's opportunities for granted? Where someone who grew up outside of the city may have an extra fire to get out there and experience NYC since it is such a desired place to be and exotic for them? Maybe they are more willing to hustle to break in and work harder. Work ethic and grit are more important for finance and maybe other places in the country do better in instilling those values in children?
I grew up very well off so I have a desire to be “better” than my parents. They still both out-earn me. To some other kids, even 100k salary is “making it”, so why stay in an expensive place like NYC and shoot for those high-paying (and high stress) jobs?
After having been here for a few years, it's become apparently that most people who live in Manhattan aren't from NYC in the first place. Most people come here to work and then move away from Manhattan (but not necessarily NYC) when they want more space / safety / not seeing a vagrant openly urinate.
This hit close to home. I was definitely the group IV. First Gen college student, grew up in Manhattan Chinatown. Dad on disability and mom worked a job to support me and my younger brother. Growing up my plan was to finish college and own a few Chinese restaurants, because those are the wealthiest people that I know. Unlike the new Chinese immigrants that came from big Chinese city (e.g. HK or Shanghai) my parents are literally from a small fishing town in Fujian, that have no connection in this country and know nothing about banking. They still think I’m a teller.
I went to Brooklyn Tech then Baruch. Was always a C and D student through out elementary school to College. Had to transfer out of Baruch to a less well known school in nyc because Baruch was tough. Looking back, the people that went to BTech fell in 2 spectrums. The kids that are setup for success, because their parents know how to navigate the system and people like me. Some of my classmates from BTech went to Uchicago and target schools, they got jobs at BB/EB and did the 2+2+2. The top students from Baruch went to IB but they’re mainly from the Macaulay Honors program. The people that made it into IB at Baruch are generally diversity, investment club or DSP. These are generally filled with kids from the specialized high school as well.
In short, the people that came from my background going into banking resembles a very very small percentage, maybe 1 out of a million. We’re the outliers for several reasons. (I) I’m smart enough to do well in school and pursue a career in banking, however I knew nothing about banking and it’s hard for me to focus on school due to the hardships at home. As a kid I didn’t understand the importance of education and what that will bring. (II) Comparing myself with my colleagues, most of them came from wealthy family and targeted investment banking as a career path. The people that wasn’t from money tend to fell into the industry by chance, but they generally did well in school. (III) The preparation in banking starts at a very early stage. Most internship recruiting happen at junior year or earlier. Kids are preparing for them in freshman / sophomore year. The process is highly structured and very low tolerance for mistakes, therefore unless you went to a school that prepped you well for it, the chance of breaking into the industry is very low. One would argue that the preparation starts before college, most college kids just sound awkward because they don’t know how to connect with “successful” people. I had nothing in common with most of my senior bankers, since many also came from affluent background. I can’t connect on the spring break trip to the Mediterranean, the nice country clubs, and the boarding school experience. Guys like me break into banking because we win on merit which is hard to judge through interviews and resume. On paper I have no qualification, but you put me against any Ivy League kids or boarding school kids, I will fuckin eat them raw. Which is why I’m constantly place top bucket among my class by a wide margin. (IV) The socioeconomic gap is huge in the U.S. From poor to middle class is easy to do in the U.S. if you’re work hard, but no one really gives a fuck about accountants. In my opinions doctors / non corporate lawyers are the real middle class, if you’re household of 4 making $500k - $250k, you’re ok. Rich enough to take family out on 2 trips a year and pay for your kids college tuition easy. $250k - $150k You’re just getting by. $150k or less - you’re pretty much living on welfare. $500k is where the true middle class life begin and when you’re comfortable. I can go to any restaurant or buy any brand items without giving a fuck. Don’t like the Batman, fuck it I will get a Daytona. This is when freedom begin but still enslave to the job.
I am one of the few of my friends who grew up in nyc, comfortable background, and went into finance. I am in PE now, but it is a grueling job. People who grew up comfortably often will not even consider entering finance because the financial incentives are not compelling enough to give away your life.
Interesting and accurate observation. As an older person who grew up in an area in Queens when it wasn't very nice, I can chime in.
A good amount of high schools were complete shit in the 90s and early 2000s. It was difficult to academically perform when you knew you had to basically fight or get into with someone on a regular basis. My high school wasn't considered one of the worst - and our graduation rate hoovered around 60% for years.
There was also a bizarre prestige of living in the suburbs, whether it was Westchester, Long Island or Bergen County. Growing up in a middle-class neighborhood, it seemed that the standard dream was either go to school, or get a good union job, and start a family in the suburbs.
I believe that in conjunction with past traumas made the city unviable for some native New Yorkers.
As a caveat, I am talking from the experience of having an average background. I can't speak for the likes of those who attended Dalton, Spence, Horace Mann, etc. Those people are on a different fucking world....
Going off on a tangent here, but I forgot to add this and thought it was important.
I apologize if this comes off disparaging to those who moved here for their ibanking or consulting stint, but it is what it is.
When you walk by a neighbor, don't pull that shit where you look down on the floor to avoid eye contact. Always acknowledge someone. You don't have to go over the top, but either a quick smile or a head nod will do. That was ingrained in us to those who grew up in the city.
The guy at the bodega or the cleaning lady at the gym can't get you an interview with a top PE firm? Guess what - they still have value! Please recognize that, and make them feel appreciated.
Thank you in advance.
So many people in this industry from nyc or surrounding suburbs. Maybe you just don’t know or didn’t ask them?
Probably among the more over represented geographies people are from
People conflating Manhattan for 'NYC'
I took the original poster's question to mean why there aren't more WASPy kids who were born and raised on the UWS doing banking?
I'm from Brooklyn but I used to skateboard with Tory Burch's kids in Manhattan. While they weren't bad themselves, a lot of their friends were the typical douchey WASPs straight out of "Gossip Girl". A few of those kids wanted to be entrepreneurs or start-up investors, influencers, etc. The serious ones would go into Public Policy, Diplomatic Corps / Foreign Service, Medicine, Law and Politics, etc. Their parents typically push them to do something "important" (and sufficiently preftigious, of course), and IB just isn't seen in the same vein by that crowd.
If you're born and raised in New York City you are probably either:
A) So rich and spoiled that you would never need to work as hard as an IBanker does for the pursuit of accumulating wealth. Even if you still go into business/finance you'll do it the Eric Trump way and end up managing the family office.
B) So broke that you're not likely going to have the guidance/support at such a young age that you end up on the target-school track to break into IB.
Tons of exceptions, it's a huge city, but I think the sweet spot for most Ibankers are rich kids or upper-middle class kids but not super rich kids. Ie, the kids that grew up in Jersey or CT and went to private schools but not the kind of kids that grew up in either LeFrak City or Billionaire's Row.
I’ve only lived in nyc for a few years but from what I’ve generally observed, the city seems to be unequal in that way
Grew up in NYC in Queens. My parents were immigrants and wanted me to be a doctor plus no one in my family knew anything about finance and real estate.
Most of the people growing up in NYC are by and large immigrants trying to make ends meet. Most of my friends went to Bronx Science or Stuyvesant which are too specialized public high schools and were pretty smart but didn’t have the financial means or motivation to go into finance. They went into medicine or more “safer” less risky paths. The problem is, most of my friends did not have the economic means to attend many top schools even if they got in. NYC is extremely expensive so I saw most of my friends going to local CUNY or SUNY schools.
That being said, there’s lots of people once I moved to Long Island that did end up going into IB and finance but most of them if they had money didn’t go to Ivies and went to top Midwestern schools (like Michigan) and ended up leaving.
After college a lot of people left during COVID and haven’t returned. Many of us got solid jobs in tier two markets or got jobs in tech.
I think after seeing how hard my parents had to work to support two kids and their lifestyle, NYC just became less appealing to me personally but I still enjoy visiting.
There were plenty of NY guys at Stratton Oakmont and JT Marlin, fuggetaboutit.
Where do the upper middle class kids of nyc go to school and what do they do? Sounds like people only talk about it as if kids are either from an upper east prep school or from p.s.118 in corona?
The upper middle class family in NYC is nearly nonexistent these days. There are probably a few pockets in Staten Island, Douglaston, etc but from what I can tell they seem to be from relatively successful blue collar backgrounds like restaurant owners not children of people in the industry. Virtually no one in the industry sends their kids to NYC public schools when you have so many options just outside the city (and a quick commute away).
The city really is an hourglass economy with ~10% of kids here raised in very elite households, prep school K-12, etc. 90% are the ones who attend the publics, have parents working multiple service/support jobs to make ends meet
One point to make is that it seems like a higher share of seniors seem to be born/raised in the outer boroughs. Blankfein was one of them. My guess is that the public schools were still ok in the 60s-70s and not the disaster that they are today.
this is the classic “I’ve only worked in finance and my nyc circle is those in my same very small niche.”
public schools in nyc are infinitely better today than 1,2, and even 5 decades ago. Plenty of upper middle class people live here when there’s almost 9 million people here lol. You’re version of nyc is just a hyper rich bubble that you haven’t ventured out. As someone that’s lived in the real world in nyc, you are so far wrong
Most of the ones grew up in Queens and moved to Long Island if it was economically possible. Homes are getting more $$ so I see lots of people moving to NJ and Westchester and Connecticut.
I’m not sure what constitutes as upper middle class but those who can afford to send their kid to top private schools (whether boarding or day school) will do so. Don’t forget that these schools do provide scholarships like colleges do.
The others will send their children to Stuy/Bx Sci/Townsend and a few other well known public schools because they’ll at least have the means to get their kids prepped enough to get in.
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