Why having rich parents matter when it comes to "Fit" in IB.
Posted this in the CRE diversity thread, but felt like this applies here also.
As background, I have been working in the industry (real estate IB) for 10+ years from a lower class immigrant Asian background. Diversity is terrible in the upper ranks (old, white) and is progressively better at lower ranks (but only for token Asian minorities and white women from upper middle class backgrounds).
There is still a HUGE gap in diversity when it comes to black, hispanic, and LGBT; representation across real estate and finance is an absolute JOKE for these groups. Furthermore, a more subtle discrimination occurs against people from lower socioeconomic backgrounds (poor families).
I think the issue here is the OVEREMPHASIS on cultural fit. It's just a back hand way to discriminate against people of different groups, backgrounds, and interest. There is an old interview question that is treated as the gold standard in our industry, and that is the "airport test". Who would you want to spend hours in the airport with if your flight gets delayed? Well guess what, you'll want to spend your time with someone who is similar to you, shares the same type of background, same upbringing, same interest, same hobbies. In this regard, ECONOMIC background puts poor people at a disadvantage. The common thread in the industry are upper middle class hobbies and interest. Wine, Golf, European Vacations, Parent's Vacation Homes, Study Abroad, Private School, Ski Vacations, Expensive Bikes. It's much easier for people from upper middle class backgrounds to make these connections in interviews than poor people. I went to a top public university that all major IB/Consulting firms recruit at, and the determining factor was never really race OR gender, but economic background. The rich kids just had a lot more to talk about and felt more comfortable in the corporate world schmoozing environment because that is the environment they were raised in.
And this goes back to race, you're more likely to come from a poor background if you are black, hispanic, or LGBT. It's a socioeconomic issue at the heart of it.
We need to do better and not always fall back on "fit" when determining who to hire.
agreed on everything you said but why did you call asian analysts token minorities when you're an asian yourself
I said it because we need to move away from calling asians and hot white chicks diversity; it may have been good enough in 2010, but not in 2020.
no one has ever considered asians or white chicks diversity
lol wtf is this. You- and nobody else is entitled to work ANYWHERE. If you want to work at a firm- you better fit the bill- that is someone else's business and they are entitled to hire whomever they want for whatever reason they want. They can hire a woman with green hair if it suits them, they determine what is right for their business- not you. If you think you have a better way to run a business- then more power to you- start up your own and hire based on whatever you feel like is important.
BTW the "airport test" is very meaningful because business, at the end of the day, is a social activity and being like-able is paramount to securing new deals. Stop focusing on race, focus on improving your own situation. Obviously kids from upper middle class backgrounds have an advantage- that's why their parents worked so hard to get to that position to begin with... (disclaimer I come from lower middle class/working class).
I get the struggle, but that is a part of life and I recognize that each firm needs to take care of itself first, nobody is entitled to any job- poor, black, white, whatever. Sorry if this comes off strong- I'm just sick and tired of hearing about all of these complainers- stop whining
I've been slugging at this for over a decade; I'm not whining for me. I'm whining for the poor black kids.
So in 10 years you haven't learned that you need to empower poor black people by telling them to scratch and hustle to get up the chain. Over 10 years, you think just writing this will change the nature of how business has been done for over 1000 years. Social connections and fit are the lifeblood of business- especially finance where advisory is relationship driven due to differentiation in quality of services offered.
I understand the struggle, I am/have been going through it- I've never been given one handout, and I certainly can't speak to the same activities that upper middle class folk can. But, I learned how to fit in by ya know, being a normal human being and bringing to light similar humor, shows, books, etc. There's more to these peoples' personalities than skiing, and if you think otherwise you still haven't learned how the game works.
More emphasis needs to be on individual responsibility and improving one's own situation instead of crying how the "game is unfair"- guess what the game has always been unfair- it was much worse 200 years ago where if you weren't nobility or essentially royalty you were toiling in a farm somewhere 15 hours a day. Life will continue to be unfair, all you can do is improve yourself- stop whining on other people's behalf- that's even worse and virtue signaling is useless.
Yea, the same group of kids that looted our store during the george floyd protests.
How brave of you, Mr. White Knight, with your fighting for the helpless, clueless, poor black kids!
In what universe are any of those topics (wine, etc.) brought up in an interview? In what universe is the way to hold yourself to pass the airport test not known?
I'm a non-target, first-gen, and from a lower-socioeconomic background and figured it out pretty quickly on my own. It's not difficult.
a business that heavily relies on bringing in and maintaining business from white-shoe executives at multi-billion dollar client companies is INCLINED to hire people with similar backgrounds who can socially relate and build relationships with their counterparties? Shocker.
Get a couple of golf lessons, do your research on top 10 European vacation places, get a couple of skiing lessons, learn how to differentiate good wines, it is really not that big of a deal. Think of it as a way of preparing for your interview.
Tell that to the poor college student on financial aid. Can I just expense it on the corporate campus card?
I think that there is a certain level of "finding your interest" in college that you need to do. Do you really need to go to the full lengths above to be ready for interviews? In my opinion, no, but you do need to be passionate about something and have a in-depth understanding of it. For Example, getting involved in student government requires nothing and you can make a huge impact in recruiting.
I was on a scholarship/financial aid, right, tell me :)
it's very clear you have never in your life had to worry about how you're going to make rent
not exactly
It is damn important to fit in.
I came from a shithole country to study in Europe, and I made damn sure that I am not only fluent in their language, but also my pronunciation was a 99% match of their dialect, I memorized all the differences between the local language variety and the standard language (it's like learning a new language). I read all there is to read about the local traditions etc. Guess what? I made friends with the locals and other kids from similar countries couldn't do the same, because they didn't do much to fit it.
It is all about your commitment. So if to get to your dream job, you need to spend 20 hours on learning the wine varieties, do it. Get a side job at a golf club to learn something about golf if you don't have money to really play it.
One of the most privileged posts I've seen on this board
If you say so
Super happy you posted this. Also, unlike some other commenters here, I don't think OP was saying that poor kids should have an extra sense of entitlement to break into the industry. They were just making a very valid comment that this "fit" the industry relies on so much is heavily tied to a person's socioeconomic status.
Also, this isn't to say that there aren't exceptions to the rule. There are extremely charismatic people that come from poorer backgrounds and break in. But, more often than not that cultural gap becomes larger and larger the further you go up in the food chain
Yes - I'm not saying we need to hand out jobs to everyone unqualified minority that wants one.
But the explicit racism I see on some of these posts are disgusting. If you were caught saying "You mean those same kids that looted during the George Floyd Protest" or "Maybe the minorities should fix their own problems first instead of asking for a handout"; your ass would be on the street immediately at my firm (or any firm for that matter). Closet racist are the worst.
I can't speak to whatever bullshit you're referring to with LGBT (Hey, you forgot the Q you homophobe), but maybe these other races should fix their cultures and start making the correct personal decisions. The government can only help so much, and if these groups could simply:
Graduate highschool or get a GED
Dont have kids out of wedlock or before 21
Have a full time job
The rate of falling into poverty drops to 2%.
Now, of that 2%, how many do you think have an actual drive to succeed?
Add in these new rules as well:
Have a half-decent work ethic
Don't do drugs
Don't commit crime
Don't be disabled (also included in the study)
Oh, they're too busy being shot by cops to follow these rules? That's a shame, I guess the general populace is too busy being struck by lightning to follow them as well.
Racist.
How did the Brookings Institute study that Ben Shapiro always cites (incorrectly) come up on a second thread this week
Please explain how the simple statistics were cited incorrectly?
Is this the part where you say that poor blacks are not responsible for personal decisions?
phrased a bit roughly but I largely agree. Thing is, the problem usually stems from social pressure - To study hard to get into and through a college program such as economics or business, much less pursue a career on WALL STREET was to go against many of their peers. Or, to fight their own family who saw success as a sell-out.
it's a vicious cycle really.
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