WSO's definition of "EB" and why is Moelis considered an EB rather than a MM?
I’m about 10 years removed from the IB SA recruiting grind but recently checked WSO to get a sense of the current landscape since my younger cousin is starting to recruit. I’ve been in MMPE for 5+ years now across two firms: one with a ~$750M–$1B fund and one with a ~$2B–$4B fund.
From my experience, ~60% of our deal flow comes from just two banks: Harris Williams and Moelis. Another ~30% comes from the usual MM suspects (Baird, Blair, Stifel, Houlihan, RJ, Jeff, etc.), and the remaining 10% is a wide mix from GS/MS to random regional shops I’d never heard of.
I don't think I've seen Moelis run a mega-cap process like CVP, Q, etc. Honestly, even Gugg does more large-cap stuff (Pfizer, Verizon, etc.), but WSO still often lumps them in with the MM banks. When we sell portcos, we almost always default to HW or Moelis.
Really just curious/confused about WSO's definition of MM and why Moelis is talked about as a Tier 1 EB alongside PJT, EVR, CVP, and LAZ. They’re a very good shop, but I swear all their deals are in the ~$1B EV range, which is solidly MM. Ask anyone else in MMPE and they'd say the same. Otherwise it’s really just college kids advising college kids in here lol.
One big difference is that while Moelis does a good amount of PE sell-sides, a lot of the work they do is more complex / hairier vs the work you would see Baird or WB do.
For RX? Sure. For M&A? Idk about that. From my experience, HW and Moelis sell the same MM HC and Industrials companies lol. Like I said on my post, almost every CIM we receive is from either HW or Moelis. And when we decide to sell a portco (usually $1B EV), our first 2 calls are almost always HW and Moelis.
Regardless, they are an MM. MM = deal size. To be clear, this isn't a negative. I just don't think WSO understands the term "MM".
“I work in MM PE and I go to Moelis with my MM deals so therefore they must be a MM shop”
They do deals over your head. If you spend more than 5 minutes on their website you can find ~50 3Bbn+ transactions they’ve advised in the past few years.
Your empirical reasoning is anecdotal.
For the sake of good exits and good comp. Deal size and asset quality are notches below GS/MS/JPM/EVR/LAZ/CVP/PJT. Deals they do are really no different from Jefferie/RBC. Just because I saw the above comment “hairy deals” generally are taking care of PE ShitCo due to relationship + deals that a bank like Evercore won’t touch.
Source: worked there.
At the end of the day, they’re an MM shop. MM refers to deal size, not prestige or complexity of deals. To be clear, this isn't a negative. I just don't think WSO understands the term "MM".
I somewhat agree - one of my best friends used to work at Moelis many years ago, so I know their RX deals can get pretty messy. But on the M&A side, in my experience, HW and Moelis run the same types of MM HC and Industrials processes. Like I said on the post, almost every CIM we get is from one of the two, and when we’re selling a portco (sub-$1bn EV), our first two calls are always HW and Moelis.
Moelis does anything and everything they can get their hands on. During my short period of time there, deal size ranged from $500M to $5B, really all scattered over. I would not necessarily agree that Moelis is middle market but definitely not EB, more like Guggenheim and Jefferies type of bank than Evercore or PJT. However, I would say LA office is closer to the kinds of the real EBs, the clients and deals they do are quite good, as the founders seat in LA office.
I wouldn’t worry about WSO’s definition of anything, it’s all dumb circlejerk.
The only important things are what kind of deals the bank / group works on (advisory, financing, etc) and size / amount of deals (small frequent deals, whale hunting, etc).
The people that make the EB/BB distinctions and debate it are pretty stupid and it’s a waste of time.
Im at an elite elite boutique (EEB, think Stifel, Lincoln, FTP, UBS) and we see a couple of deals from them. That's a quality of an elite boutique if you ask me.
I work at RBC, the only EBBB (elite boutique bulge bracket) and you are wrong
woah, never been able to talk to a EBBB employee before. Can you reply to my networking emails?
Per capita exits rival (some may consider weaker, not my point though) most other banks that are grouped with Moelis and are demonstrably stronger than MMs such as Harris Williams (which I assume places 0 to MF and maybe a few to UMMs). Also important to consider many kids at Moelis are from non-target backgrounds which makes the exits somewhat more impressive/ difficult. Wharton kids at Moelis feed Warbug, Apollo, and other top firms.
This forum is full of college kids, and thus the rankings are going to be heavily influenced by exits, not league tables. Moelis analysts exit well and receive inbounds from anywhere.
Source: roommate worked at MOE
Can confirm. Non-target but received inbounds from SLP and BX
Does MoCo actually have that many non-targets? Quick search says not really
Quick LinkedIn search with “moelis 2026 summer” and found kids from Virginia Tech, Baruch, Binghamton, 3 John Hopkins, ASU - that’s 7/~36? I wasn’t even being thorough and I assume some kids haven’t updated. ~20% non target which is likely the highest out of all the banks that bae similar exits as MOE. Also tons of IU Kelley and UT Austin kids (no shade, just not typically seen as target schools by many banks in NY)
I think you're missing the point of my post. MM = deal size, not prestige. I think Moelis is a tier-1 shop, however, they mainly do MM deals. Doesn't mean they aren't prestigious. I think WSO just doesn't know what MM means.
Moelis will do things all up and down the value scale. They post all of their transactions - just go look at the front page. A mix of $1bn+ deals including some several billion dollar deals right next to stuff that just barely cracks $100mm or is undisclosed. And they will also do buysides and weird, complex transactions like JVs and other structured transactions. Regular-way MM sell-sides are incredibly formulaic. Moelis will do them, but they also do the bougie stuff.
Normal MM sell-side shops generally don't get hired for a lot of the type of work that Moelis does. On the other hand, Moelis culturally tolerates more of the type of random little deals that MDs couldn't jam through committee at PJT or EVR.
The consequence is that it's an insane sweatshop (because committee says "ask for a slightly higher fee then yeah sure" to literally everything) but also exits are really good.
To add onto this, because of this business model analysts close significantly more deals than most other groups as everything is live. There’s also no BD all the time that’d you’d get at BBs.
PE firms salivate at this matter bc kids that leave Moelis are the best process monkeys to ever process monkey which explains exists despite smaller deal sizes
You guys are missing the point of my post. I do think Moelis is a very prestigious firm and their juniors are very capable. However, MM refers to deal size, not prestige, and Moelis mainly does MM transactions.
Historical deals are also misleading if you think that's what your experience is going to be. A scan at my EBs transactions is all WSJ headliner deals. My group was largely considered a large cap group that advised on some of the industry's biggest transactions. But the reality is in between every one of those there's 100 shit little deals that no one talks about, the kind of stuff you'd think that firm is "too good" for. 80% chance you're going to be working on those for most of your time. The chances you happen to be the analyst on the once every few year mega deal in your group during your short stint there, a deal that's probably been on and off and finally comes to fruition after years of pro-bono "strategic advisory", that's burned through generations of analysts, and you just happen to hold the torch when it gets done, is pretty slim. You're likely doing the same shit as the guy at a "lower tier firm". Only difference is at an BB / EB at least there's a shot on goal at those sorts of opportunities, and there is a non-zero chance you could be involved.
Ken Moelis’s DNA is DLJ (well Drexel before that)
DLJ created the PE sellside model for investment banking as we know it. It’s no surprise Moelis is a volume player there. But there are about 20 bankers at Moelis who can play upscale and they do so very well. And of course Ken is the best banker alive right now.
Very real firm, Moelis
Note: I work at a competitor, turned down a partnership at Moelisbut still view them with a ton of respect
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