Am I stuck in SG?
Currently a university student in Singapore. Initially always thought the path was set for high finance with me staying here — have set myself up decently being part of my school’s investment fund + 2/3 solid internship (great name and/or deals experience).
Following a trip to the US, realizing how living in a landed house and owning a car is for an average person unlike here due to land constraints, will cost an insane amount (car could be fine but considering its opportunity cost with investment opp instead + how convenient cabbing is…i prefer not to). Even if you were to argue for landed housing here, I think just the lack of real landed space (unless you’re filthy rich) + nature that perhaps a suburban SF or right outside of SF neighbourhood would offer (perhaps like
NAPA). Not to mention, western countries do generally have shorter working hours (yes i acknowledge less pay but I think there’s enough money at some point). In short, SF or LA seems great.
I looked through WSOs for all posts to see the possibility of and whether it be wise. Definitely seems tough — either I get internally transferred from here to the US, get married to an American or do a masters in an ivy there. As to whether it’d be wise, career wise I think it would be ideal for the experience especially since it is easier to return to SG but not the other way round. Life wise I wanna try it out — I mean if things don’t work out I can always come back + can’t really bear the thought of staying here (maybe just being youthful naïve). If money was not an issue, it seems US would be ideal but practicalities of tax and possible health issues that could derail your whole financial planning exist.
My question is then am I just stuck here in SG? Career wise I’m hoping for ER, long-only funds if not IB (which correct me if im wrong but SF does have all 3). At this point, I really am quite open to migrating and thus have read barely into the EU possibility since it could offer the whole landed house, seasonal weather and less working hours like certain US cities do. Any wise advice given these considerations? PS still have 2/3 years left in university if that even helps.
Ah, the classic dilemma of feeling anchored to one place while yearning for the adventures and opportunities of another! Based on the most helpful WSO content, let's break down your situation and see if we can swing from the vines of uncertainty to the branches of clarity:
Internal Transfer: This is a common strategy for those looking to move internationally within the finance industry. If you're aiming for a role in ER, long-only funds, or IB, securing a position in Singapore and then seeking an internal transfer could be a viable path. It's important to excel in your role and network within the company to increase your chances of a successful transfer.
Education Route: Pursuing further education, like a master's degree from an Ivy League school, could open doors in the US. This path can provide you with the necessary credentials and network to break into the US market. Plus, being a student might give you a taste of living in the US before committing fully.
Marriage: Well, this one's a bit more personal and less strategic from a career perspective. It's not the most reliable plan for relocation unless Cupid strikes with precision.
Work-Life Balance: It's true that some Western countries may offer shorter working hours, but this can vary greatly by industry and company. In high finance, long hours are common, regardless of geography.
Real Estate and Lifestyle: Owning a landed house and having access to nature are valid considerations. If these are priorities for you, it's worth exploring locations that align with your lifestyle aspirations.
EU Considerations: Europe could indeed offer a different work-life balance and lifestyle. However, each country has its own set of immigration and employment rules, so you'd need to research this option thoroughly.
Given that you still have 2-3 years left at university, you're in a great position to plan. Use this time to:
You're not stuck; you're just at the beginning of plotting your course. Keep gathering information, and use your remaining time at university to build a strong foundation for your international ambitions. Remember, the finance world is vast, and with the right moves, you can navigate it to your dream destination. Keep swinging, future financier!
Sources: I Need You, WSO + Its Time To Move - Asia Job Search, SA 2020: Stuck in a foreign country, Living in Asia, Singapore pay higher than anywhere else?, MBB Singapore
Terrible take. it's extremely straightforward, if you're good enough you'll find your way to the USA. Gotta ask yourself what you have to offer versus the legions of target and semitarget folks in the USA. You also have to ask yourself why you didnt study in a top US school for ugrad. If your family couldn't afford it or if you weren't good enough, well, then you need to play with the cards you're dealt
There are very few places out there which can offer a high tax adjusted salary along with career growth. The USA stands alone and is a consistent outlier particularly in tech, finance, legal and medical salaries
. I can only speak for Finance. HK comes close. Singapore isn't bad if you're Singaporean, salaries have really (but not fully) caught up with HK over the past 10 years.
For what its worth there are folks within my small circle (sg/hk) who obtained an internal transfer to US bb after a few years in Sg/hk. Yes, these are folks who studied in nus/ntu/smu/hku/cuhk/ust.
Your path forward is really very simple and straightforward. Get great internships in a BB from nus/ntu/smu, work for a few years in a decent shop (bb,gic, tier 2 shops etc) and apply for a top us mba. Extremely well trodden path by Singaporeans .
Source: myself
Cheers for this mate! Encouraging w the start of the new year
I second this. I've worked at a BB in HK and seen enough of our SG/HK team make the transfer to US offices after a few years. It's not straightforward and requires a bit of hustle/grit, but nowhere near impossible if you have your mind set and play your cards right.
How do they do it?
Can you comment more about salaries in sg/hk? I am currently in London but would like to move to asia (lower taxes being one reason). Are the gross salaries comparable to London for a QD 6-8 yoe systematic equities (tier 1 hf)? Like £400-500k.
Youre young so I'll give it to you (and I was young once) but think a little bit about what you're saying.
If you want a landed property and to own a car, well, then there are several countries places you can do that.
Ah, but you presumably want to live in a place with strong career opportunities, the vibrancy and convenience of city living , some degree of safety and cultural accesa, and the ability to make a supranormal amount of money (either from a salaried job or by taking entrepreneurial risk).
Well you'll need to be doing extremely well anywhere you are in the world. Or live in a place where taxes are high and space isnt at a premium...
It's not USA or bust though... for example Australia and Canada also have the types of opportunities you seem to be looking for, pay well, and let you live the landed+car lifestyle. Sure it's not US pay but if you're doing IB or "high finance" you'll still be insanely well off
Australia does sound decent — thanks for the input chief! You have any personal take on how a high financier life is like there?
I can only really speak to IB but I find it pretty good - there are sweatier and less sweaty shops like anywhere else but overall I think the seniors are a lot more reasonable (most of them seem to have stable families/lives of their own so aren't grinding like crazy if they don't have to) especially compared to what I read on this forum about the US and UK. People take christmas/NY holidays pretty seriously so while you're working for the rest of the year you get some level of certainty of an end of year break. Of course ymmv but on the whole I find it's a pretty good balance of getting to work hard and see interesting transactions / learn a lot without killing yourself and ruining your health and personal life.
Oh and my experience is Sydney based but I hear the smaller offices in Melbourne and Perth can be even more friendly and less hierarchical (but not necessarily less sweaty/work less)
Go to the Mexican border and walk in, it's open to all right now with the Biden administration.
Let's Go Brandon
I am from Hong Kong. Initially I seriously considered moving to London because of general dissatisfaction with life.
Then I moved to London for a year and discovered that while a new environment is exciting initially, if you are dissatisfied moving is not going to solve your problems.
Singapore infrastructure, governance, safety, tax structure, is much, much better than London for sure, and most likely better than US. I did not realise how excellent the living standard is in developed wealthy Asian cities (HK, Sing, Tokyo, SZ etc.) until I moved to the West.
I don't think Western countries have "generally shorter working hours". Maybe Spain, Canada, Italy, UK to a certain extent etc. but not the US. Any difference will not be as massive as you expect.
Consider this decision carefully
How do gross salaries compare in hk vs london? Can you tell bit more about yourself (industry, yoe, pay range)? Thanks.
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