I hate the living sh*t out of my job as a current salesman. I hate sales with a burning passion. I need out. Please help.
Hi everyone. I currently work for a top tech company (think IBM/Salesforce/Oracle/CISCO) selling SaaS and high-tech enterprise software. My base salary is $60k and last year, I made around $100k before taxes with commission. I'm 26 years old, and have been working in sales for 1.5 years. My job is in inside sales, so I mostly work from the office and sell via the phone. On the plus, I only work on average around 50 hours a week. I hate my work and don't find it fulfilling at all. If I keep hitting and exceeding my numbers, I could be promoted to a field rep position within a few years, where I could make between $150-200k year (although the hours would go up, and I'd be on the road a lot, although it'd definitely still be less hours than management consulting or BigLaw).
On the downside, while I am quite good at sales, it's A HORRIBLE FIT. It is completely opposite of my personality, my skillset, and my interests. I just did sales because I couldn't find any other work I wanted to actually do. I'm introverted. I don't like talking to people more than I have to. I hate wining and dining clients. I hate smalltalk. I was never the "life of the party." I was always the smart kid in class that others trusted to get the job done, but didn't necessarily want a beer with.
I'm fine with being that guy, I don't want to be a party animal. I don't want to be the "guy who knows everyone" or the "guy who everyone likes," but want to be "the smart serious guy who knows his shit and everyone respects to get the job done." Sales isn't who I am. It's the complete opposite of my personality. I'm an INTP. Sales is one of the worst career choices based on my personality type. The hours aren't bad at all (sometime I work 40 hours a week), but there's an extreme pressure to perform and close that deal right by midnight, which can be very stressful. Also sales is in pretty much no way intellectually stimulating or analytical IN THE LEAST. Sales is all about hustling, all about closing.
To succeed in sales, you have to be very socially adept, being funny, charismatic, outgoing, personable, etc. And despite being in the tech industry, we're taught to "dumb things down" in sales calls and instead do a lot of small talk on sports and other topics to get the ball going. We take clients out to lunch, play golf with them, butter them up and kiss ass, be a smooth sweettalker and showman, use weird tactics like change your caller ID if you're in nevada calling into texas, doing lip service and flattery, and other shit that's annoying. Working this unprestigious unintellectual has been a slow existential rot for me, where I feel I haven't lived up to my potential.
I work in a field where the stakes of what I do are pretty low. I'm more than happy to trade in my easy breezy, relatively lucrative job for a much more stressful and demanding and intellectually rewarding career. I want something intellectually rewarding and satisfying. Why the fuck did I even go to school in the first place?
Also, to succeed, you have to make it all about the customer constantly, and I find that exhausting. I hate doing this. I really miss being in college and just talking to my peers in an analytical and intellectually rigorous way. And while I make a good amount of money, no one really thinks highly of my profession in sales, and it's definitely not considered "prestigious." It's consider the job that people who don't have any other marketable skills go into. It's the job that "smart people don't go into." In fact, my manager even said "smart people don't go into sales." Sales people are very socially adept, but not in the least intellectually curious or analytical.
As someone who went to an ivy league undergrad (cornell) and got a 3.7 GPA in Applied Math and Economics, I really do miss being in an academic and intellectually stimulating environment, and being surrounded by brilliant peers. i failed all my ib interviews from cornell, and then got into sales because i was initially enticed by the good money, and it's good straight out of undergrad.
Half of my fellow sales reps, while making bank and are social animals, and have amazingly high social/emotional intelligence, are high school dropouts. A monkey could go do my job, and it's pretty low-skill all things considered. Just find that high school dropout who partied all day and ditched class, got Fs and Ds while flirting with girls and making friends, and instill him a good work ethic, and he would excel at my job.
As someone who always held myself to high academic standards, and excelled in high school and college, I feel like pretty much my entire schooling was put to waste, and I barely use my brains for my job. My degree seems pretty useless, since I could have eventually gotten the same job via going to community college.
This is what I want: I want to have a job where I actually use my fucking brain. Where I put my technical, logical, and analytical mind to use. Where I work with similarly smart and driven people. Right now, two career paths are opening up: management consulting, and biglaw. However, I have no idea how to get into these fields without further graduate education.
I took the LSAT in February, and got a 171, so I think with my 3.7 GPA, I have a good shot at the t14. If I went to law school, I'd want to pursue BigLaw, and then probably go in-house if I don't make partner track. I think I'd like the academic rigor of law school, and really miss doing analytical work and exercising my brain.
On the other hand, I have no idea if I want to be a lawyer. What I think, more than anything I want, is a job that requires some intellectual labor, and something that I can find fulfilling and where I can put my intelligence to use. Some friends suggested maybe I pursue an MBA to go into management consultant or something instead. But then again, I've never worked 60+ hours consistently, so I don't know if I would hate or regret pursuing a law degree or MBA just for the sake of "prestige" and "doing something intellectual." I took the GMAT and got a 730. I could get a dual JD/MBA too.
But I only have 1.5 years of work experience, so way too early to apply to MBA programs right away. Although I'm thinking about applying to just law school ASAP because I want to get out of the sales hellhole. I've tried applying directly to boutique consulting firms and law firms for paralegal jobs but have gotten rejected all the time BC my sales experience has pigeonholed me into sales positions. I got stuck in a job I hate, and can't escape it, the sales stigma on my resume always exists!! People don't think I have transferable skills to other, more analytical jobs :(
What other work do you recommend REQUIRES and UTILIZES analytical chops, intelligence, booksmarts, and technical acumen? Work that is detailed-oriented? That's not 100% based on soft skills/people skills (as my job is now?) I understand soft/people skills will always be needed, but I just want something way more analytical, since moving from Cornell to sales has been extremely, extremely jarring and I feel miserable. If you have any other job recommendations: such as corporate strategy, corp dev, operations, etc., that may be a good fit for me, please let me know.
Thank you so much!!! Please if you can let me know of a potential path to get to your recommendations. I appreciate it a ton!
Hate My Sales Job
The following advice is specific to this situation. The Brofessor chimes in with advice that is applicable for anyone who needs doesn't "fit" in sales. Specifically those with more analytical and solitary personalities. These people may be of the opinion that sales are not the most intellectually stimulating of jobs.
. from certified user @thebrofessor"
it sounds to me like the lack of intellectual stimulation is what's the root of this problem, and I'd be willing to bet if you had interaction interspersed with deep thinking/problem solving, you'd be fulfilled. also, a common misconception is that introverts can't do sales, I don't buy that. introversion & extroversion are just ways of describing where you recharge your batteries. would you rather turn on Arch Enemy's pre-Angela work and rock out at home while you do the dishes? or would you rather go to happy hour and hang out with strangers? I find myself somewhere in the middle, because interpersonal communication (when done right), is exhausting.
here's what I'd do if I were you:
take an inventory, what are your marketable skills? specifics, like programming languages, technological proficiency like SQL, six sigma, etc. ask yourself where those could fit
find out if there are opps at your company to lateral. companies like those mentioned design customized solutions for clients (engineers) but have to have someone interact with those clients (sales guys). if you can be both, you can succeed, what I'm unsure of is how readily your applied math background translates
consider more schooling. would a masters in engineering be possible? this would get you directly into the technical side of your company but would be years off of work and without pay most likely.
reflect on your current situation, be brutally honest. is it your group, your clients, or the nature of your work? because the first two change over time without you doing anything, the third is difficult to change. if you're just surrounded by a particularly fratty group of guys, that will pass. if your clients are the issue, think of educating them as an opportunity to teach (I believe the highest form of intelligence is distilling complex concepts into layman's terms), but if it's the nature of the work (selling routers to corn farmers), then you need a change.
from certified user @dick_fluid"
I feel there is a very strong potential that you will be disappointed with any job you take because people don't pay you to be intellectual, they pay you to produce. Fundamentally, that sounds like something you are uncomfortable with.
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tell me more. are you just now realizing this? while those are all good companies, I have a hard time with an ivy education and great grades you fell into sales by mistake.
thank you for the candor, I think you have tremendous potential. and do not fret, you can be successful and still like death metal (I'm a big fan, as is In The Flesh ). I'm biased, because I work directly with some of the companies you mention (having several employees as clients) and one thing I've noticed (said this many times on this forum) is you don't have to be salesy to be effective in this world. all you have to be is able to communicate.
it sounds to me like the lack of intellectual stimulation is what's the root of this problem, and I'd be willing to bet if you had interaction interspersed with deep thinking/problem solving, you'd be fulfilled. also, a common misconception is that introverts can't do sales, I don't buy that. introversion & extroversion are just ways of describing where you recharge your batteries. would you rather turn on Arch Enemy's pre-Angela work and rock out at home while you do the dishes? or would you rather go to happy hour and hang out with strangers? I find myself somewhere in the middle, because interpersonal communication (when done right), is exhausting.
here's what I'd do if I were you:
take an inventory, what are your marketable skills? specifics, like programming languages, technological proficiency like SQL, six sigma, etc. ask yourself where those could fit
find out if there are opps at your company to lateral. companies like those mentioned design customized solutions for clients (engineers) but have to have someone interact with those clients (sales guys). if you can be both, you can succeed, what I'm unsure of is how readily your applied math background translates
consider more schooling. would a masters in engineering be possible? this would get you directly into the technical side of your company but would be years off of work and without pay most likely.
reflect on your current situation, be brutally honest. is it your group, your clients, or the nature of your work? because the first two change over time without you doing anything, the third is difficult to change. if you're just surrounded by a particularly fratty group of guys, that will pass. if your clients are the issue, think of educating them as an opportunity to teach (I believe the highest form of intelligence is distilling complex concepts into layman's terms), but if it's the nature of the work (selling routers to corn farmers), then you need a change.
I may think of more later, but hope is not lost, you just need a couple things: some self reflection/realization, a reset (maybe mild, maybe severe), and a challenge.
I feel there is a very strong potential that you will be disappointed with any job you take because people don't pay you to be intellectual, they pay you to produce. Fundamentally, that sounds like something you are uncomfortable with.
The business models of MBB, BigLaw, and IB are like any other, in that there are armies of peons doing mind numbing grunt work for every one senior person with actual authority and agency. The thing that differentiates these industries is not that they do more interesting work necessarily, but that they hire more elite people to do it.
But you will not feel very elite when your also-elite boss walks in at 5:30 PM and says he needs a 500 page document section checked and cross referenced by tomorrow AM.
And while it makes a big difference to feel like you work with intellectual peers, you may find your sense of self-worth conflicts with the very mundane and grueling way that your brain will be used in the early and middle stages of these careers.
i'm almost sure OP made this post to brag. " omg i hate my life... i'm 26 making 100k a year working a mega tech firm. I hate sales and i'm not built for this.... but i keep crushing quota year in year out. If i keep up with shitty trajectory i'm on i'm going to be making 200k a year making it rain. I'm really not made for this guys, what should I do. " Op has prove he kills the sales game, claims he hates sales....wants to go into consulting where it's basically a totally a sales game of ideas at the end of the day. OP, to be great in life... you need to realize it's all about sales... and you clearly have a gift for it even if you hate it. Maybe you should slink deeper into your depression and you might make a million dollars a year lol. Or maybe you should change your outlook on life and be blessed that you have the job and opportunity you do right now. You do understand that every single ceo that has come out of IBM has had a sales background. Most people's first role sucks, keep proving you kick ass at your job and eventually more responsibilities will fall on you. Volunteer to help with more jobs, prove that you are leader, and soon you will be managing a staff of medium sized swinging dicks who will make you look even better as a manager. Op... you have a golden gift. embrace it.
I really don't want to be too dismissive to this post... but I can't help but think that you (OP) have not thought twice about the jobs that can offer what you're looking for.
Beginning with you initial goal: banking. Do you realize that for the first 5 years of any standard banking career, you're paid to check for formatting errors on 100 page powerpoint documents, and make photocopies?
And your second consideration is law.... you think you will be paid to be anything more than a footnote reader and fact checker in your first five years? Come on...
The majority of the career paths you listed do have some minute room for intellectual curiosity, but multiple years of mind numbing due diligence and b*itch work that comes before any man gets paid for their independent analysis or creative problem solving.
Frankly, I think I can jump to the conclusion that you're not big on networking, or doing enough research into the jobs you're considering, which you should consider investing more time and effort into. I can't emphasize enough how important that is.
And two words: Asset Management.
Come and work for me. I will sponsor you to run your own company with whatever title you want (like Chief Visionary). I will give you staffs and resources. I will give you your peace and never let you do sales. Whatever thing that you produce, I will pay you bare minimum and sell it to someone for at least 10x amount I pay you for in salary.
It is a joke.
Whether you like it or not, to be in a job or have any career progression, you need to be in sales. It doesn't really matter whether you like it or not. The fact that you haven't moved into another role or switched to academic is because 1) such roles does not exist, or 2) academic career - teaching jobs won't pay you that much for it.
You are typical arch type of "I went to a good school and everything else is below me". Come down and see how us normal people try to do a living. If you keep staying up in your Ivy tower, you will be destined to fail in life.
This is also the reason why I have seen a lot of Ivy League kids turned out to be good employees but never as employers/ enterprenuers because they are a bit far off from the reality and don't really like to mingle with people. It is much easier to live comfortable in your own little box; but then the real world is actually outside of that box.
As someone who works in biglaw in one of the top global groups for my specialty, I am telling you now that you are romanticizing it. Lots of brainy types do go into law, however if you think you'll be doing "intellectual work", good luck. You will spend your first few years as an associate slogging it out in the muck on due diligence or doc review depending on transactional/lit focus, and then basically doing more and more complex/high stakes deal/case management as you go up. If you are lucky enough to make partner, it will only be because you are a salesman and can bring in big business.
Generally speaking, I think you romanticize life as a worker in modern capitalism. Nobody gives much of a fuck about your capacity to be academic and thought provoking/creative unless you work in a milieu that demands it - for instance, some types of engineering. Save these exceptions, your brainpower is generally going to be levied against the task of optimizing various processes.
If you are not building a better widget in today's world, you are just helping accomplish some facet of its journey to market. Most often; this involves work that is fairly repetitive, and rewards the ability to win business in a competitive field. If you think BigLaw, MBB, or IB are an exception because they're "preftigious", id be willing to wager that you have never seen the inside of one of these firms.
I hear you. I'm aware of the mind-numbing due diligence work of biglaw associates. Having said that, I started salivating when you said a lot of "brainy types" go into law. I crave being with "people like me." There are no other brainy types in my division/team/hub, so I feel like a fish out of water, a horrible fit culturally and personality-wise. I feel even if the work isn't great, if you have a great team where you truly feel like you belong, and your co-workers are great and an awesome fit, you have a much easier time enduring and getting through the work. I want to be in a line of work where I'm with other elite, intellectual, brainy types who value education and being generally smart. That'd make me a lot happier. I don't want to be with dumb fratty types who aren't intellectually curious in the least but make sales because they just know how to smooth talk. I'm with them 40 hours a week, I have to interact with them, we go out on happy hour, and I feel miserable. I just know a lot of people at t14 law schools, and I fit much better with them socially than I do with other salespeople. I just can't relate to salespeople or like salespeople all that much. They brag about not taking school seriously, about getting Ds and Fs, about how they did horribly on the SAT, and their mentality just fundamentally goes against my values as someone who really heavily values education. In fact, before going industry, I was heavily considering the PhD route for Economics. I love learning, teaching, and research. But I didn't do academia because I want money too. I just can't relate because I studied my ass off for the SAT and got a 2340. So when someone brags about a 1390/2400 on the SAT, like my salespeople co-workers have, it makes me cringe, like I fucked up horribly in life to be in the same position as them. I grave the eliteness and prestigeness of biglaw, that I'd be around similarly high-achieving smart hardworking no-nonsense people. I like being around smartypants, not jocks.
They are too "alpha" and "not smart" for my tastes. Even if the work isn't that good, at least I know that if I go into biglaw, I will be with other people who are smart, who went to top schools, who got good grades, who destroyed their LSAT, etc., and people I can sustain interesting conversations with from time to time. I just miss being around super smart peers at Cornell all the time, and it's super jarring working with "average joes" coming from that, if that makes sense.
you are so delusional. wait till you get to big law and realize it's all a bunch of bros who probably drink harder than they did in undergrad on the weekends/ any available time they have. They aren't all smart, and they probably don't want to discuss the theories of nietzsche with you in their free time.
Maybe it is how you see things. If you change the way you look at things, it might be a bit better. A good example would be this.
During a visit to the NASA space center in 1962, President John F. Kennedy noticed a janitor carrying a broom. He interrupted his tour, walked over to the man and said, "Hi, I'm Jack Kennedy. What are you doing?"
"Well, Mr. President," the janitor responded, "I'm helping put a man on the moon."
To most people, this janitor was just cleaning the building. But in the more mythic, larger story unfolding around him, he was helping to make history.
Here's the point: No matter how large or small your role, you are contributing to the larger story unfolding within your life, your business and your organization.
And when your entire team embraces that type of attitude and belief system, incredible things happen.
Don't sit back like a paper tiger talking shit on your coworkers who seem perfectly content with their lives simply because you are not.
You are not pigeonholed due to any other reason than your shitty attitude. You cannot escape society, and you must "go along to get along" to a certain extent- no matter what job you find.
You are not any better than any of those "animals" who got D's in college. In fact, I would almost bet money that their journey from a less than ideal paper trail to a six figure career has put them in a better place than you.
Good luck with your job search- but it's not the job that is holding you back.
Hi OP,
It's been half a year or so since your post but I wanted to reply you because your situation sounds extremely similar to mine, except I had the outcome you wanted and am now looking for an out in sales that makes good money.
You're an introvert, an INTP, went to a good university, did a quantitative course and we're roughly the same age. You are/were stuck in a job that you don't need a degree for and feel like you want to make the switch to a more 'challenging' and 'intellectually stimulating' role (trust me, I used to tell people that I could have done my previous job without a high school degree). You think sales is beneath you (I had an opportunity to switch to sales, but decided to take the more 'intellectually stimulating' role that pays less actually because I looked down on sales - jokes on me).
I was in the same position as you with the same background as you less than a year ago, and successfully made the switch to a more structuring/IB role. The only difference between you and me of the past is that I was from a role that didn't pay as well (think somewhere along the lines of Fintech/marketing in a bank that wasn't directly linked to revenue generation). Some would argue that it's not the most intellectually rewarding role around, but if you think management consultancy is intellectually stimulating (I've done an internship in one before, trust me when I say it's not), then you'll think my role is intellectually stimulating. My desk also has the reputation of hiring the 'smarter' people compared to other desks.
My take? You will hate it. I am now looking for an out in institutional sales. Here's why:
I got my role because I managed to solve a very 'complex' model within 2 days without prior experience. Stayed up for 36 hours straight on some kind of trance state and played around with excel till I fixed it. The hiring desk was so impressed, they fought for me till I got the role. I'm grateful to the people, but miserable with the work. And I am looking to move to sales now.
Just get the money from sales, do the good hours (investment banking may pay you roughly the same absolute amount, but do you think I can do anything outside of work if I'm constantly leaving the office past midnight? I read a joke article on how our cost per hour is as bad as a McDonald's worker. They weren't joking.), and find your passion outside of work. Start a business, learn a new skill, do a part time masters, earn enough to finally quit and do a full time masters... do whatever that satisfy your need for intellectual stimulation, the key is to find a role that pays well and has less hours and pays well.