I'm a big golf guy. Dunno if anyone else is/or has been following the news lately, but the Saudi's have started a golf league that is paying PGA Tour players huge amounts of money to leave the PGA Tour and go play on their (the Saudi) start up. By huge amounts of money, I mean some plays get $150M/$200M. I know its in some ways unfair to ask golfers to basically be diplomats, but I feel the consensus from most people I talk to about it is "yea, I do it for that money"
Just makes me thing, how money absolute are we in this country/world. Seems like people will almost do whatever they need to do to get rich, and overall, thats probably bad for society/the world as a whole.
I get money can get you a lot of things, and the world/country is somewhat crazy right now, so if you can get a bag of money and go live somewhere in a gated community where your family is safe, I guess thats a good thing.
Would like to hear everyone's thoughts on this topic.
This is a pretty complex issue philosophically about money and its effects, but specifically on the topic of athletes, I personally don't give a shit about their personal views, and I completely understand why they would want to get more money. People watch them to play sports, not pontificate about things they largely don't understand, but I agree it's a huge issue. Another example: the NBA is huge in China, but many stars don't speak out about things going on there, or get in trouble if they do. I don't know who owns the PGA, but what's stopping some giant PE firm or American/European billionaire from buying it and keeping it (somewhat) local?
The PGA Tour is a non-profit, dunno if anyone can outright buy them. I think they would have to switch tax status before that.
I get it, I'm not saying its a new thing, I just think people "doing whatever" for money is a getting more and more rampant. Just feels in some ways there isn't any thinking of the greater good, just how much can "I" make.
And I get that's somewhat ironic in a way, because for most of us, money drives everything we do.
I personally agree, although golf in particular has nothing to do for the greater good, it's a waste of water and isn't a great way to stay in shape relative to other sports, although it is fun to crack a few cold ones with the boys and shoot around on a Friday or Saturday.
Because the reasoning behind a US PE firm buying it would be purely to generate returns for investors. The Saudis are setting up LIV for completely different reasons i.e. sportswashing. Basically MBS and the saudis know they have a terrible reputation due to human rights, killing journalists etc. so they are trying to improve their rep by engaging in sportswashing and one of the ways they are doing this is through golf. They are paying insane amounts of money just to sign PGA players (Tiger woods was offered high 9 figures, dustin johnson offered 150 mil just to sign and he has "only" earned 74 mil in 14 years with the PGA). None of this makes sense in terms of an actual profit generating business model so the PGA cannot compete whatsoever and no PE firm would try. The saudis just figured that the net gain is worth it from an increased reputation standpoint irrespective of how much money they are losing on this.
The same is happening in football/soccer. Middle eastern oil billionaire state backed clubs e.g. city,psg are financially outcompeting all normally ran clubs as they don't mind losing a ton of money. US ran clubs e.g. man united, arsenal, their fans typically hate the owners as the owners are purely focussed on making a profitable return and obviously don't spend a ton of money on players so they can't compete with the middle eastern owned clubs.
Btw sportswashing is the same thing used by nazi germany with the olympics. Similar to Qatar hosting the world cup with all their human rights abuses.
Also to address the other comments about where do we draw the line and comparing it to using saudi oil etc. I mostly agree with that but the thing about this is it is sportswashing and purely done to increase saudi arabia's reputation which is bad because of their treatment of lgbt, using slaves, assassinating journalists so tbh its kinda different from simply buying saudi oil in a free market.
I mean... a chance at winning at $15mm purse (PGA), or a guaranteed $150-200mm (LIV). Kind of a no-brainer.
You might not get a fancy green blazer, but with $200mm, you could buy yourself one, and then crash your helicopter into your mansion on your private island with Nancy Pelosi riding shotgun while wearing it.
(Disclaimer: I have no idea if the Masters is even part of the PGA but fuck it, golf is for neurotic old men anyways)
Most countries' legal systems support the moral beliefs of their constituents.
Therefore a good judgment about a country's morality can be interpreted by its laws.
And many people place morality above money. One reason is social face value; the second reason they don't want to go to jail.
I can't say I'm not conflicted on this, but where is the line on who we associate with? How big of a moral disagreement do you have to have with someone before you refuse to do any business with them? If you disagree with someone's views on abortion, would you (and I mean a general you, not trying to attack anybody) not agree to work for them? Obviously you won't work at their abortion clinic or pro-life non-profit (depending on your view), but what if they have an animal shelter where they save puppies? Would you work there?
Let's say your employer supports a political candidate you don't like. Do you quit?
The athletes playing golf aren't endorsing killing LGBTQ people and I don't believe the tour itself has any sort of restrictions of that sort. At the end of the day they're just playing golf. Also, does that mean we should boycott their oil because it enriches them?
At the end of the day I have no idea what I'd do, that's a lot of money to do the same thing I'm doing somewhere else.
Don’t think it’s our society alone- would extend to most modern societies. Money boiled down is a tool for doing what you want.
read in a book that the pentagon/US military/some other US group (don’t remember who) had a program that gave people in the Middle East $10/day to give the US info on the terrorists. Turned out that a lot of people in the program were formerly in terrorist groups but the money was too good to pass up so they defected. The book said the money was well over the average income for the region so in their minds it was worth it. Weird to think that these supposedly “diehard extremists” could be bought with such little money but such is life I guess.
So these golfers shouldn't play in a Saudi league just as much as you shouldn't fill your car up with Saudi oil?
Obvisouly. Saudi oil money = good, how dare you question this. Saudi golf money = bad, you are Hitler and Stalin combined if you take it
typical lib logic
I would say in general yes, people are greedy, but I would say people are not greedy in the absolute. I see plenty of people who become financially independent and then stop, whereas a select minority continue and want moar moar moar. I've only met with a couple of uber uber wealthy (not athletes, but that level) and some of them have that wiring where it becomes a contest how much they can accumulate moreso than the love of the game. and just because society is riddled with greed and the love of money doesn't mean you have to be, it's very possible to live in a society full of sin and not commit said sins
if I speculate on the psychology - I've never seen someone who was intrinsically happy have this behavior, which leads me to believe that these people who chase that amount of money (assuming money is the only/main reason they move) were never truly happy, and won't ever be truly happy. if money doesn't buy happiness at a $15mm purse, it won't at 10x that
Interesting observation, solid thread - I'll throw an additional historical / macro perspective to this.Is our society money absolute? Now, sure I think you can say that overall. Has it increased or decreased over time is the question. It may be difficult to decipher this change over time in respect to America because in the past America was both the most economically prosperous as well as the most morally righteous and free country. Therefore, a vote with your dollar for "doing the right thing" always came back to supporting American interests because America was both the most prosperous, powerful, and morally just. In other words, the common Jewish Christian moral values of the west aligned with the economic payoff should you support them in their views or undertakings (generally speaking). Now, with America losing it's standing both economically and morally, this provides people (in this case American golfers) with the option of voting / supporting another country of power.This is why it is so important for humanity that America keeps its standing both within and throughout the rest of the world. What does a vote for the Saudis support? Sharia law, death to all gays, death by association, injustice, terrorism, etc. etc.
yeah out of all of the reasons to hate KSA (kashoggi, yemen, funding al qaeda), golf is remarkably trite. I'd like for us to stop funding their genocide in yemen before I give one iota of a fuck about how much scratch golfers are making
Isn't it obvious? They're throwing shitloads of money at their golf league to divert attention away from all the other heinous shit that goes on in the country. The KSA is treating LIV the same way the Chinese Communist Party treated the Olympics.
Get money, Fuck bitches. Importance in that order
Ut et commodi voluptatem illo molestias hic laborum quo. Possimus voluptates similique rerum debitis vitae doloribus consectetur fugit. Molestiae accusamus ut eum voluptatem sed at nulla.
Labore ea et aut ullam ducimus saepe ab. Quidem ut ab placeat. Sint rem laborum optio et dolorem neque accusantium. Expedita et ullam voluptatem. Accusantium voluptates doloribus labore laborum ut sed nihil. Ipsa voluptas neque voluptas necessitatibus.
Quidem sed hic omnis eos dolor quia sint. Expedita est voluptatem nulla. Minus aliquam dolores quia repellendus. Ea pariatur reiciendis perferendis hic accusantium reprehenderit. Ipsum omnis est sint accusantium quod.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Consequatur quidem qui amet qui modi aut ut magnam. Ut sed aspernatur cupiditate est voluptatum cumque. Et assumenda consequatur error fugiat a architecto. Ad sapiente in eum velit voluptatibus. Consectetur et fuga est voluptatem.
Autem culpa quis alias rerum. Est quasi et aliquid est itaque possimus. Architecto ut velit maxime dolor ea nisi.
Debitis quam minima dolorum ratione sint quia eum. Quas libero ad et voluptatem rerum nihil laborum eum. Explicabo eum quo optio animi facilis ea nobis. Voluptas dolores quo omnis autem velit quasi vitae ratione. Dolore eligendi est natus et porro. Non autem eveniet molestiae dolorum maxime voluptas.
Porro eos culpa nihil voluptatibus natus rerum repellat. Sequi quasi assumenda ad quia. Est quo architecto rerum fugiat culpa modi. Sequi aut illo qui alias ab neque et. Accusamus hic architecto dolor qui et eligendi autem.