CT School Shooting

Two gunmen shot up an elementary school in CT. AP reporting 27 dead, including 18 children. The oldest kids were only 9/10 years old. This makes me sick... how does one put a stop to something like this?

 

You can't really put a stop to it... Even if we were to limit gun use (yea right) suspects would still get a hold of them and commit crimes. The only thing I can really think of is if we armed the teachers or principal or had a gun safe installed in the school. But that's just crazy. Thoughts and prayers out to the folks in newtown.

 
Waymon3x6:
You can't really put a stop to it... Even if we were to limit gun use (yea right) suspects would still get a hold of them and commit crimes.

Right. But I'd rather have it so that some socially awkward loser has to illegally buy a gun off some sketchy dude in the black market rather than simply be able to walk into a gun store and walk out with a gun, or better yet, order one online.

 
Waymon3x6:
You can't really put a stop to it... Even if we were to limit gun use (yea right) suspects would still get a hold of them and commit crimes. The only thing I can really think of is if we armed the teachers or principal or had a gun safe installed in the school. But that's just crazy. Thoughts and prayers out to the folks in newtown.

Gun safety classes? Give me a break. My father spent 10+ years in the military & related outfits, first as a special forces operative and then in intelligence... He's seen how people react under life-threatening circumstances. Typically, unless someone is both highly trained and experienced, they respond very poorly to high pressure situations. People shit themselves. Literally. There's friendly fire. Their accuracy is awful. Some people completely freeze and can't even shoot. See: the NY empire state building shooting, where cops shot 10+ innocent civilians before getting their guy. To think that gun safety courses will prepare you for life-threatening situations is a complete fucking joke.

I've done martial arts my entire life (mostly muay thai). I had done very well in competitions throughout, before stopping at 22 when I was finishing up college. When it came to a bar fight around that time, I quickly got outnumbered, got a beer bottle smashed on my face, and basically got my ass kicked. Sure, I got some good hits in, but I wasn't prepared for the unpredictability of a real fight.

So just give up because it's going to happen regardless? Making it harder to access guns will make them less accessible and will reduce death rates. See: NYC, the rest of the developed world, etc. What's the best way to reduce gun violence in the U.S.? I don't know the exact answer, but I do know that "more guns" is not the right answer. "Fun" fact: The U.S. has a higher rate of gun-related deaths than Mexico, even though the latter has a brutal drug war going on.

 
DontMakeMeShortYou:
Waymon3x6:
You can't really put a stop to it... Even if we were to limit gun use (yea right) suspects would still get a hold of them and commit crimes. The only thing I can really think of is if we armed the teachers or principal or had a gun safe installed in the school. But that's just crazy. Thoughts and prayers out to the folks in newtown.

Gun safety classes? Give me a break. My father spent 10+ years in the military & related outfits, first as a special forces operative and then in intelligence... He's seen how people react under life-threatening circumstances. Typically, unless someone is both highly trained and experienced, they respond very poorly to high pressure situations. People shit themselves. Literally. There's friendly fire. Their accuracy is awful. Some people completely freeze and can't even shoot. See: the NY empire state building shooting, where cops shot 10+ innocent civilians before getting their guy. To think that gun safety courses will prepare you for life-threatening situations is a complete fucking joke.

I've done martial arts my entire life (mostly muay thai). I had done very well in competitions throughout, before stopping at 22 when I was finishing up college. When it came to a bar fight around that time, I quickly got outnumbered, got a beer bottle smashed on my face, and basically got my ass kicked. Sure, I got some good hits in, but I wasn't prepared for the unpredictability of a real fight.

So just give up because it's going to happen regardless? Making it harder to access guns will make them less accessible and will reduce death rates. See: NYC, the rest of the developed world, etc. What's the best way to reduce gun violence in the U.S.? I don't know the exact answer, but I do know that "more guns" is not the right answer. "Fun" fact: The U.S. has a higher rate of gun-related deaths than Mexico, even though the latter has a brutal drug war going on.

I still disagree, putting a gun safe in a school will at least give the teachers a chance. Regarding your NYC example, in this case a teacher could have shot all he/she wanted down the hallway at the suspect because all the students were safely in the classroom huddled in the corner. The chance of the teacher accidentally hitting a student would be minimal. We need more guns, not less.

Regarding your "fun" fact, I don't know where you get your info from but a simple google search shows that Mexico has 8-12 homicides per 1000 people while the US has 2-5.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonoberholtzer/2012/07/24/we-have-a-lot-o…

 

RIP beautiful children. As a dad this makes me cry. Just like gay marriage and thousands of other issues, the idiotic gun control laws in this country need to change and certainly will in the next 10 years. Thank Gd the republicans are irrelevant and the NRA and scared old folks in the country are fading into oblivion. How many more tragedies do we need? There is NO counter to this. Ban guns and this sht is 99% less likely to happen. The British ain't comin, time to f*ckin move on....

 
HedgeHog:
RIP beautiful children. As a dad this makes me cry. Just like gay marriage and thousands of other issues, the idiotic gun control laws in this country need to change and certainly will in the next 10 years. Thank Gd the republicans are irrelevant and the NRA and scared old folks in the country are fading into oblivion. How many more tragedies do we need? There is NO counter to this. Ban guns and this sht is 99% less likely to happen. The British ain't comin, time to f*ckin move on....

if you're fucked enough in the head to do something like this, I don't think the fact that you don't have a gun is going to stop you from going FUCKING INSANE... pipe bombs aren't hard to make. you're not going to be able to stop stuff like this from happening, and if you wanted to try, you'd be better off worrying about the mental health of everybody and not what weapons they have access to.

If your dreams don't scare you, then they are not big enough. "There are two types of people in this world: People who say they pee in the shower, and dirty fucking liars."-Louis C.K.
 
wolverine19x89:
if you're fucked enough in the head to do something like this, I don't think the fact that you don't have a gun is going to stop you from going FUCKING INSANE... pipe bombs aren't hard to make. you're not going to be able to stop stuff like this from happening, and if you wanted to try, you'd be better off worrying about the mental health of everybody and not what weapons they have access to.
This.

I'm not for banning firearms, not at all. But the fact that people can get so fucked up in the head honestly leaves me little faith in anything.

Currently: future neurologist, current psychotherapist Previously: investor relations (top consulting firm), M&A consulting (Big 4), M&A banking (MM)
 
wolverine19x89:
HedgeHog:
RIP beautiful children. As a dad this makes me cry. Just like gay marriage and thousands of other issues, the idiotic gun control laws in this country need to change and certainly will in the next 10 years. Thank Gd the republicans are irrelevant and the NRA and scared old folks in the country are fading into oblivion. How many more tragedies do we need? There is NO counter to this. Ban guns and this sht is 99% less likely to happen. The British ain't comin, time to f*ckin move on....

if you're fucked enough in the head to do something like this, I don't think the fact that you don't have a gun is going to stop you from going FUCKING INSANE... pipe bombs aren't hard to make. you're not going to be able to stop stuff like this from happening, and if you wanted to try, you'd be better off worrying about the mental health of everybody and not what weapons they have access to.

I know that people can always find a way, but if you put enough obstacles up, you can eliminate certain avenues of destruction. Why let them freely purchase guns? It only makes sense to make it harder for them to acquire weaponry.

 
PTS:
http://www.courant.com/sns-rt-us-china-stabbingsbre8bd065-20121213,0,55…

we should outlaw sharp eating utensils too....

This is the biggest BS article against gun control.

Pretty sure a knife can't kill people at range, kill people through walls, kill people through people, kill multiple people in a very short time frame regardless of whether the people are in close quarters or not, knives can't randomly spray up a room and maim and kill indiscriminately.

That, and the main purpose of knives is to prepare and eat food. The main purpose of guns is to shoot things, generally animals while hunting or people in self-defense.

I'm not some anti-gun nut, but arguing that someone once killed people with a knife, so we can't have stricter gun rules is a weak argument.

If anything, just have universal background checks to ensure that people who get guns are non-felons and don't have major mental issues. End of the day, we have WAY more gun violence than any other major modern country on Earth. Obviously, gun violence will never fully end, but why not make it more rare while still allowing law abiding citizens to get guns? Seems reasonable to me.

 
TheKing:
PTS:
http://www.courant.com/sns-rt-us-china-stabbingsbre8bd065-20121213,0,55…

we should outlaw sharp eating utensils too....

This is the biggest BS article against gun control.

Pretty sure a knife can't kill people at range, kill people through walls, kill people through people, kill multiple people in a very short time frame regardless of whether the people are in close quarters or not, knives can't randomly spray up a room and maim and kill indiscriminately.

That, and the main purpose of knives is to prepare and eat food. The main purpose of guns is to shoot things, generally animals while hunting or people in self-defense.

I'm not some anti-gun nut, but arguing that someone once killed people with a knife, so we can't have stricter gun rules is a weak argument.

If anything, just have universal background checks to ensure that people who get guns are non-felons and don't have major mental issues. End of the day, we have WAY more gun violence than any other major modern country on Earth. Obviously, gun violence will never fully end, but why not make it more rare while still allowing law abiding citizens to get guns? Seems reasonable to me.

I understand what you're saying, but the point about knives being more prevalent to perpetrate violent crime in a society that heavily regulates gun ownership is still valid IMO. Look at China - there are no school shootings, but there are very many cases of deranged people attacking children in schools with knives.

 
TNA:
"Those who give up their liberty for more security neither deserve liberty nor security"

Are people in Japan not free?

Note - I'm not arguing for that level of gun laws, not even close. But, let's not argue that people won't be free if they need to have a background check / waiting period to get guns.

 
Gomez Addams:
TNA:
"Those who give up their liberty for more security neither deserve liberty nor security"

So does owning the gun make you more 'free' or 'secure' ?

No, but the choice and freedom to make that decision does. You have the right, not the obligation, to bear arms. The choice is yours.

 

The majority of gun violence is located in inner city sections. You exclude these outliers and the US is very safe. Yes, we have higher gun violence than other countries, but we also have more gun rights and freedoms. It is a trade off.

Go visit Arlington National Cemetery and take a look at all the brave men and women who dies protecting these rights we so frivolously want to throw away the second a news headline pops up. Those are all someones husband or son. Freedom isn't free boys and girls.

 
TNA:
Go visit Arlington National Cemetery and take a look at all the brave men and women who dies protecting these rights we so frivolously want to throw away the second a news headline pops up. Those are all someones husband or son. Freedom isn't free boys and girls.
Like the brave soldiers at rest, the victims today were someone's son (or daughter). They are not some headline.
 
TNA:
The majority of gun violence is located in inner city sections. You exclude these outliers and the US is very safe. Yes, we have higher gun violence than other countries, but we also have more gun rights and freedoms. It is a trade off.

Go visit Arlington National Cemetery and take a look at all the brave men and women who dies protecting these rights we so frivolously want to throw away the second a news headline pops up. Those are all someones husband or son. Freedom isn't free boys and girls.

They all died protecting our right to bear arms? That was what WWI & II, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq #1, Afghanistan, and Iraq #2 were about? That's why we were fighting? Because these countries were threatening our second amendment rights? Please. The second amendment was put in place to protect us against sovereign invaders, not our neighbors. And I'm not even calling for the outright ban of guns. I have no idea what the right solution is. I do know that we need stricter controls. Again, NYC has been a great example of what can happen under tighter enforcement.

 
DontMakeMeShortYou:
TNA:
The majority of gun violence is located in inner city sections. You exclude these outliers and the US is very safe. Yes, we have higher gun violence than other countries, but we also have more gun rights and freedoms. It is a trade off.

Go visit Arlington National Cemetery and take a look at all the brave men and women who dies protecting these rights we so frivolously want to throw away the second a news headline pops up. Those are all someones husband or son. Freedom isn't free boys and girls.

They all died protecting our right to bear arms? That was what WWI & II, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq #1, Afghanistan, and Iraq #2 were about? That's why we were fighting? Because these countries were threatening our second amendment rights? Please. The second amendment was put in place to protect us against sovereign invaders, not our neighbors. And I'm not even calling for the outright ban of guns. I have no idea what the right solution is. I do know that we need stricter controls. Again, NYC has been a great example of what can happen under tighter enforcement.

"I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God. "

"...defend the Constitution of the United States..."

Constitution = Bill of Rights + 17 amendments

Bill of Rights = 10 original Amendments

Right to Bear Arms = 2nd of 10 Amendments

So when someone joins the military, fights and dies, they do so defending the Constitution which encompasses the 2nd Amendment.

 
DontMakeMeShortYou:
TNA:
The majority of gun violence is located in inner city sections. You exclude these outliers and the US is very safe. Yes, we have higher gun violence than other countries, but we also have more gun rights and freedoms. It is a trade off.

Go visit Arlington National Cemetery and take a look at all the brave men and women who dies protecting these rights we so frivolously want to throw away the second a news headline pops up. Those are all someones husband or son. Freedom isn't free boys and girls.

They all died protecting our right to bear arms? That was what WWI & II, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq #1, Afghanistan, and Iraq #2 were about? That's why we were fighting? Because these countries were threatening our second amendment rights? Please. The second amendment was put in place to protect us against sovereign invaders, not our neighbors. And I'm not even calling for the outright ban of guns. I have no idea what the right solution is. I do know that we need stricter controls. Again, NYC has been a great example of what can happen under tighter enforcement.

NYC? NYC has a murder rate of 6.4 murders per 100,000 people and a violent crime rate of 581.7 per capita. Chicago (another anti-gun city with strict gun control) has a murder rate of 15.2 per capita and a violent crime rate of 1002.3 per capita. In comparison gun friendly San Antonio Texas has a murder rate of only 5.7 per capita and a violent crime rate of 605.8 per capita.

Source: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the…

Also get some real statistics, don't just pull numbers out of your ass.

 
TNA:
The majority of gun violence is located in inner city sections. You exclude these outliers and the US is very safe. Yes, we have higher gun violence than other countries, but we also have more gun rights and freedoms. It is a trade off.

Go visit Arlington National Cemetery and take a look at all the brave men and women who dies protecting these rights we so frivolously want to throw away the second a news headline pops up. Those are all someones husband or son. Freedom isn't free boys and girls.

I'm not sure whether your claim that the "majority of gun violence is located in inner city sections" is true or not, but assuming it is, if you were to implement stricter gun control laws / bans, then presumably it would become prohibitively costly to acquire a firearm (legally or otherwise). Therefore, residents of those "inner city sections" and frankly, anywhere, would be less likely to purchase them.

People tend to think life is a race with other people. They don't realize that every moment they spend sprinting towards the finish line is a moment they lose permanently, and a moment closer to their death.
 
rickyross:
I'm not sure whether your claim that the "majority of gun violence is located in inner city sections" is true or not, but assuming it is, if you were to implement stricter gun control laws / bans, then presumably it would become prohibitively costly to acquire a firearm (legally or otherwise). Therefore, residents of those "inner city sections" and frankly, anywhere, would be less likely to purchase them.

That's not necessarily true. A lot of the guns that move around on the street were acquired legally at one point, then stolen and resold. I had a handgun stolen from me that was being resold at a pawn shop for quite a bit cheaper than what I paid for it. Presumably, the pawn shop bought it for a bit less than what they were selling it for...in order to make a profit...and the guy that sold it to the pawn shop probably sold it for a pretty cheap price because he got it for free...out of my car.

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
 

Depends how you define free. And it took a couple nukes to free them now didn't it. Gun rights hold a special place in American history and freedom. It is the 2nd amendment, trumped only by freedom of speech. While this is horrible, this is the price we pay for having the right to bear arms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States#Homicides

There were 52,447 deliberate and 23,237 accidental non-fatal gunshot injuries in the United States during 2000.4 A small majority of gun-related deaths in the United States are suicides,5 with 17,352 (55.6%) of the total 31,224 firearm-related deaths in 2007 due to suicide, while 12,632 (40.5%) were homicide deaths.[6] In 2009, according to the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, 60% of all homicides in the United States were perpetrated using a firearm.7

So about 17,000 deaths in 2007 were due to people killing someone else, intentionally, with a gun.

0.006% of the US population

Price we pay for freedom.

 
TNA:
Depends how you define free. And it took a couple nukes to free them now didn't it. Gun rights hold a special place in American history and freedom. It is the 2nd amendment, trumped only by freedom of speech. While this is horrible, this is the price we pay for having the right to bear arms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States#Homicides

There were 52,447 deliberate and 23,237 accidental non-fatal gunshot injuries in the United States during 2000.4 A small majority of gun-related deaths in the United States are suicides,5 with 17,352 (55.6%) of the total 31,224 firearm-related deaths in 2007 due to suicide, while 12,632 (40.5%) were homicide deaths.[6] In 2009, according to the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, 60% of all homicides in the United States were perpetrated using a firearm.7

So about 17,000 deaths in 2007 were due to people killing someone else, intentionally, with a gun.

0.006% of the US population

Price we pay for freedom.

By your logic, we shouldn't care about this school shooting. It's only 30 people or 0.00001% of the population. Hell, school shootings in general don't really matter then... A typical year has even less than that @ 10-20 people. Kids? Fuck 'em. Small price to pay for freedom.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki killed 150-250k people total. That's just ~9-15 years of intentional American gun violence (I'm excluding the accidents, even though I don't think I should). Seems like a much more reasonable price to pay for freedom.

You need to look at comps. Our comps are other developed nations. We are far, far worse than the rest of the developed world when it comes to gun violence. Plain and simple.

 
DontMakeMeShortYou:
TNA:
Depends how you define free. And it took a couple nukes to free them now didn't it. Gun rights hold a special place in American history and freedom. It is the 2nd amendment, trumped only by freedom of speech. While this is horrible, this is the price we pay for having the right to bear arms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States#Homicides

There were 52,447 deliberate and 23,237 accidental non-fatal gunshot injuries in the United States during 2000.4 A small majority of gun-related deaths in the United States are suicides,5 with 17,352 (55.6%) of the total 31,224 firearm-related deaths in 2007 due to suicide, while 12,632 (40.5%) were homicide deaths.[6] In 2009, according to the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, 60% of all homicides in the United States were perpetrated using a firearm.7

So about 17,000 deaths in 2007 were due to people killing someone else, intentionally, with a gun.

0.006% of the US population

Price we pay for freedom.

By your logic, we shouldn't care about this school shooting. It's only 30 people or 0.00001% of the population. Hell, school shootings in general don't really matter then... A typical year has even less than that @ 10-20 people. Kids? Fuck 'em. Small price to pay for freedom.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki killed 150-250k people total. That's just ~9-15 years of intentional American gun violence (I'm excluding the accidents, even though I don't think I should). Seems like a much more reasonable price to pay for freedom.

You need to look at comps. Our comps are other developed nations. We are far, far worse than the rest of the developed world when it comes to gun violence. Plain and simple.

By my logic I don't care. While I feel bad and this is horrible, I do not want to remove 200+ year old freedoms because of a headline. More than 30 people have been killed in Philly in the past couple of months, yet people come out of the wood work because of this headline. Sensationalism.

I turned the TV back to Bloomberg at work. The worthless "news" we have is a joke.

 
Waymon3x6:
We need more guns, not less.

Why? Could someone from the US enlighten me please.

US National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health:
Positive correlations were obtained between the rates of household gun ownership and the national rates of homicide and suicide as well as the proportions of homicides and suicides committed with a gun. There was no negative correlation between the rates of ownership and the rates of homicide and suicide committed by other means; this indicated that the other means were not used to "compensate" for the absence of guns in countries with a lower rate of gun ownership.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1485564/

Harvard researchers:
strong correlation between state-wide homicide rates and the fraction of households in a state that own firearms. While similar studies have been carried out in the past, this one is the first to include the entire nation and to use results available on a state-by-state level. When the data was adjusted for all the control variables, an extremely strong correlation was found between states with the highest levels of homes with firearms and the number of firearm-related homicides. Indeed, states in the top 25 percent of household firearm ownership had firearm-related homicide rates that were 114 percent greater than states that had household firearm ownership in the bottom 25 percent. Overall homicide rates were a full 60 percent higher in the same states.

http://arstechnica.com/science/2007/01/6601/

If you want to pull "correlation doesn't equate causation" - fine... But I just don't understand where someone gets the idea that even more guns would somehow lead to less killings.

TNA:
While this is horrible, this is the price we pay for having the right to bear arms.

This is the only statement from the pro-gun side that I can take serious in this thread. If the US as a society decides carrying around a gun is so fucking great that it's worth it to have a batch of elementary/ high school/ college students shot to death by the dozens every few weeks... um, I guess? It's fucked up, but at least it's honest.

Anybody who thinks more guns will result in increased safety/ security... please make your case, I honestly do not understand it!

 
24837:
...But I just don't understand where someone gets the idea that even more guns would somehow lead to less killings...

If you are actually looking for a serious answer it's simply this...it's a numbers game. Criminals rarely target people they think will successfully resist their criminal intent. This is why old ladies and girls walking by themselves are targeted. It's not too likely that you will hear about a group of guys walking back from their weekly lacrosse practice that get held up by a guy with a club. The odds are not in the criminals favor and though they are, by nature, dumb, they are smart enough to know how to find an easy target.

Which goes back to my point about unarmed individuals in predominantly gun free zones. They target people they think are unable to resist their efforts. Florida is a good example. When they were trying to pass their concealed carry law, gun control advocates all over the country were flying off the handle talking about how it will be like a wild west town in Florida with bad guys shooting at good guys and good guys shooting back at bad guys and all of these innocent people being killed. Yet, violent crime decrease after the passage of the bill. Why? My guess is that criminals think twice about committing a crime when the thought that the potential target might be armed. Probably why criminals never really rob cops. That is why the Castle Doctrine is good. You should know that if you come into my house uninvited, with criminal intent, that you are probably going to die...instead of me being legally bound to gather my loved ones in a locked room and wait for you to leave with my stuff.

And I know people want to argue the point about how effective an armed citizen might be in a scenario like what occurred today. The truth is, we will never know for sure. What we do know is armed citizens stop crimes virtually everyday but that these valiant efforts go unrecognized by the news media. Knowing that, I think I would prefer the odds of having 1 armed and 99 unarmed citizens in a crowd getting shot up rather than just 100 unarmed citizens. But some people call me optimistic.

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
 

Not sure today is the right day to be having a damn gun-rights debate. Frankly, the moment I heard the news I got too pissed to continue work. Usually I'm desensitized to these things (had a few incidents at my high school, nowhere near as severe, that kind of made me shrug public violence off). But elementary schools? That's just fucked up. Shootings are bad enough, but why anyone would open fire on a classroom of 5-year-olds is beyond my comprehension.

Seriously, what the hell.

Currently: future neurologist, current psychotherapist Previously: investor relations (top consulting firm), M&A consulting (Big 4), M&A banking (MM)
 
chicandtoughness:
Not sure today is the right day to be having a damn gun-rights debate. Frankly, the moment I heard the news I got too pissed to continue work. Usually I'm desensitized to these things (had a few incidents at my high school, nowhere near as severe, that kind of made me shrug public violence off). But elementary schools? That's just fucked up. Shootings are bad enough, but why anyone would open fire on a classroom of 5-year-olds is beyond my comprehension.

Seriously, what the hell.

Quoted for truth.

I personally heard about this through a text message earlier today, as I have two nephews who were among the students evacuated... thank God. The message was pretty cryptic, so I went online to get more information. When I saw the body count (at 12 then) I was so pissed I had to stop working for a little while. I told my CFO who is an older woman and she just became exasperated: "This is it... we've lost it. We're all done..." I have to agree. I was pissed about the CO shooting, but this is on a whole other level.

I don't know. I personally think we can try to prevent these types of tragedies by beefing up security a little in places with high traffic and big crowds and especially at schools. At least at schools. My mother is a teacher at an elementary school in one of the nicest little towns in CT... They have one way in and you pretty much need an appointment with someone to get buzzed in through the two sets of doors. I know this is not completely effective, and I know we can't have security everywhere, all the time, but I think that is the mentality we need at schools now. I had numerous bomb threats while I was in school, and the response was to hire one more old man-security guard and make kids sign in and out of the bathroom... We apparently need to take this shit more seriously.

I know I'm quackin' at this point, but one final thought - I am thoroughly disappointed with the way the news is covering this, and the fact that each time something like this happens the first thing that comes up is gun control. I personally don't even think of gun control when this shit happens. Let's start small please.

"That dude is so haole, he don't even have any breath left."
 

Connecticut Post is now reporting 29 fatalities including, tragically, 22 children.

http://www.ctpost.com/news/article/Source-29-dead-including-22-children…

CBS is streaming their special report and they seem to be ahead of the other news outlets:

http://www.cbsnews.com/2718-201_162-1950/cbs-news-live-video/?tag=speci…

Looks like the shooter killed his mother prior to heading to the school, she apparently used to be teacher at the school.

"My caddie's chauffeur informs me that a bank is a place where people put money that isn't properly invested."
 

Gunman has been identified as Ryan Lanza and his mother was a teacher at the school, additionally, her students appear to have been some of the victims.

"My caddie's chauffeur informs me that a bank is a place where people put money that isn't properly invested."
 
mikesswimn:
Gunman has been identified as Ryan Lanza and his mother was a teacher at the school, additionally, her students appear to have been some of the victims.
Part of me wishes he was still alive so we could figure out why he would do something like this, so we could prevent it in the future. Presumably he had a beef with his Mom and somehow he wants to take it out on a bunch of little kids who she taught. That blows my mind.

I also have a hard time believing that some people think guns don't make it easier to kill someone since that is what they were designed to do. Knives do not equal guns. How best to regulate it? Above my pay grade. People that want guns will generally find a way to get them, but having them around certainly makes it much more likely that you can kill people in the heat of the moment. I grew up in a very gun friendly environment that did not have many murders (almost certainly had more guns than people). I did know some kids that were killed accidentally by kids messing around with their parent's guns and suicide was much easier with a gun. Arming teachers is definitely not a solution, for whomever brought that one up. That's just crazy talk. I have little kids and would never own a gun with them in the house. It's much more likely that they do something stupid with our gun than us being able to protect them with our gun.

 
SirTradesaLot:
mikesswimn:
Gunman has been identified as Ryan Lanza and his mother was a teacher at the school, additionally, her students appear to have been some of the victims.
Part of me wishes he was still alive so we could figure out why he would do something like this, so we could prevent it in the future. Presumably he had a beef with his Mom and somehow he wants to take it out on a bunch of little kids who she taught. That blows my mind.

I also have a hard time believing that some people think guns don't make it easier to kill someone since that is what they were designed to do. Knives do not equal guns. How best to regulate it? Above my pay grade. People that want guns will generally find a way to get them, but having them around certainly makes it much more likely that you can kill people in the heat of the moment. I grew up in a very gun friendly environment that did not have many murders (almost certainly had more guns than people). I did know some kids that were killed accidentally by kids messing around with their parent's guns and suicide was much easier with a gun. Arming teachers is definitely not a solution, for whomever brought that one up. That's just crazy talk. I have little kids and would never own a gun with them in the house. It's much more likely that they do something stupid with our gun than us being able to protect them with our gun.

If you're smart with your guns, your kids aren't going to hurt themselves with them. My dad had guns my whole life and I never even saw them until last year (I'm 23). Also, this wasn't heat of the moment, you don't kill your mom then drive to a school and kill children in the heat of the moment. This is a mental health issue... what do you people think is going to happen if guns "go away"? All the crazies will lose their motivation to kill? Not even close. Somebody who wants to kill will kill, taking unsuspecting human lives is not rocket science. I'm sure you could come up with a way to massacre people without a gun right now if you really tried.

I also wish he was alive so we could do some medical/psychological testing and he can deal with the prison life of a child-killer.

If your dreams don't scare you, then they are not big enough. "There are two types of people in this world: People who say they pee in the shower, and dirty fucking liars."-Louis C.K.
 

No law will keep you safe from a truly derranged individual (which this individual clearly was). Even if guns did not exist, this guy would be making bombs out of fertilizer or setting buildings on fire. You cannot control all the items that can potentially be used to inflict mass fatalities.

Remember Anders Breivik in Norway. And the nerve gas attacks in Japan. Crazy people will find a way to kill.

 
West Coast rainmaker:
No law will keep you safe from a truly derranged individual (which this individual clearly was). Even if guns did not exist, this guy would be making bombs out of fertilizer or setting buildings on fire. You cannot control all the items that can potentially be used to inflict mass fatalities.

Remember Anders Breivik in Norway. And the nerve gas attacks in Japan. Crazy people will find a way to kill.

Yes, you can't control all items, but you can limit what people readily have access to. Creating a barrier is a good thing.

 
DontMakeMeShortYou:
West Coast rainmaker:
No law will keep you safe from a truly derranged individual (which this individual clearly was). Even if guns did not exist, this guy would be making bombs out of fertilizer or setting buildings on fire. You cannot control all the items that can potentially be used to inflict mass fatalities.

Remember Anders Breivik in Norway. And the nerve gas attacks in Japan. Crazy people will find a way to kill.

Yes, you can't control all items, but you can limit what people readily have access to. Creating a barrier is a good thing.

And what would you limit access to? Knives? Scissors? Chain Saws? Chemicals readily available at the grocery store or hardware store? The internet where people can look up bomb and chemical weapon recipes? Motor vehicles because you can run people over with them?

When does the line get drawn?

You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.
 

To quote GS elevator: "Guns kill people like spoons make people fat."

I am 6'1 230, I was on a powerlifting team in college and still powerlift to this day. If I came into work on Monday with a knife and took out an entire floor of my company (which is possible given my size and the copious amount of fat people in corporate America) are we going to blame knives for the incident or me for being an out of control psychopath? Are we going to ban gyms for giving me an outlet to build up strength allowing me to barrel through people? No.

It is total bullshit and an absolute cop out to blame guns. The gun didn't walk into the school and do this on its own free will. It is an inanimate object being controlled by someone with free will.

Unfortunately, we are going to have a bunch of fucking political assholes using this for their political agenda instead of recognizing that some fucked up psychopath just killed 20 eight year old kids.

You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.
 

I wish we never revolted against the British. We could still be a happy colony. To think of all the brave men who died to free us and preserve our freedoms and to see people just bleat to have those taken away makes it all in vein.

 
TNA:
I wish we never revolted against the British. We could still be a happy colony. To think of all the brave men who died to free us and preserve our freedoms and to see people just bleat to have those taken away makes it all in vein.

This country has become so full of tree hugging pussies it is unbelievable.

You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.
 
Nefarious-:
TNA:
I wish we never revolted against the British. We could still be a happy colony. To think of all the brave men who died to free us and preserve our freedoms and to see people just bleat to have those taken away makes it all in vein.

This country has become so full of tree hugging pussies it is unbelievable.

Yeah man, completely agree. Keep throwing down knowledge. It won't matter as we are sold into European style slavery, but one day people will see that a few people had common sense and an appreciation for what once made this country great.

 

This incident, along with the Javon Belcher story, has so many people calling for a gun ban... yet Josh Brent drunk drives and kills a teammate, and nobody wants to talk about banning alcohol. In 2010 there were 10,759 drunk driving fatalities in the US. People are too quick to react to one problem and almost completely ignore the other.