Did anyone expect an outcome other than a sacrificial lamb?
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I didn't expect an outcome other than the right one. Get out of here with that "sacrificial lamb."
Cool I'll get out of here and get high on fentanyl and resist arrest so that someone else can get arrested for my self-inflicted murder
^so he deserved to die? ass-hat
I don't think anyone thinks Floyd "deserved to die". I'm guessing you did not watch any of the trial, but I thought the defense made a pretty strong argument showing that Floyd resisting arrest for 17 minutes justified the officers pinning him down, and that his drug use/medical condition might have increased his odds of dying. Did Chauvin intend to kill Floyd? I personally don't think so. Should Chauvin have pinned him for 9 minutes? Probably not. Would any other officer thrown into this clusterfuck of a situation do the same? That's a good question.
Ultimately, after following this trial, I think Chauvin displayed negligence and deserves punishment, we need Police Officers to know that they need to be accountable for their negligence, just as a citizen would be. But I do not think Chauvin displayed intent.
Another lesson learned: just fucking comply with the police, resisting never works out.
Except that the charges/verdict today are based on "unintentional" murder. No one said Chauvin intentionally killed him from the beginning.
If I run over a person on the crosswalk in my car and I wasn't looking, I'm still going to be in trouble
You have one fully grown adult male per body part leaning on a man sprawled out on the floor.
No reason for one of those men to keep their knee on his throat for as long as he did.
The right decision was made.
Who said he deserved to die please? Do you believe this kind of straw man attacks enhances or detracts from society?
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Seems extremely high probability this was the right verdict and it is good that Chauvin was convicted. At the same time, having crowds threatening riots if he isnt convicted and Biden saying he thinks he should be convicted is a fucked up subversion of the rule of law.
Biden didn’t comment until the jury was already deliberating. Waters on the other hand did speak out of hand
This will be interesting to watch play out. I imagine many police in Minneapolis at least will now see this as cause to not risk arresting anyone for anything. I would genuinely like to see how long the defund the police chants can realistically last, because last time they made it less than 6 months before the local government had to backtrack and spend millions in a campaign to rehire people. No one is going to want to do a job where they will regularly be required to use force and restrain people when at the same time they're constantly targeted with negative press and villainizing rhetoric each time they apply said force and things turn tragic. It's not an easy problem to solve, because police abuse does happen and tragic accidents/complications happen. I firmly believe this is a case of the latter after everything presented, so we'll see what else is in store assuming they appeal.
I’ll preface by saying, I wasn’t at all surprised by the verdict regardless of if you believed it was intentional or not. And people that are saying anyone deserves to die are just a bit fucked up. But, my brothers a black cop in one of the rougher parts of the country and even he said the system is fucked up both ways. Is racial profiling prevalent among all people? Of course. And every scenario is different, but just for a moment imagine being a cop in a high crime area regardless of what race/ethnicity a portion of the population is. That shit is scary. Not to mention you may have a family and kids at home, and you’re undermanned as is, praying that you don’t happen to be part of the statistic of cops that are killed in the line of duty. He’s leaving the force soon to pursue other passions in life because at the end of the day he said it’s just not worth it. The chances of him getting killed or sued/sent to prison for simply reacting to a rapidly unfolding situation are too high. You’re nervous as is on a daily basis but then you gotta worry about so many different factors when you just think you’re doing your job. So did Derek Chauvin use excessive force? Probably, but 9 times out of 10 a normal healthy person won’t die. He made a mistake and will pay for it. But the way he was vilified and seen as intending to kill him doesn’t sit right with me either.
yeah fuck you buddy - he sat on a mans neck for 9 minutes straight
Which should tell you everything you need to know about the police. What kind of effed up argument is "I won't do my job if I don't have immunity from killing anyone who crosses my path"?
Good. Lets spend more on hiring and training officers, and simultaneously hold them more accountable. "Defund the police" doesn't mean "don't have any police". It means that we spend an inordinate amount of money on law enforcement, when a lot more good would be done redirecting some of that funding towards rehabilitating drug addicts, helping the homeless, providing mental health services to those who need it - instead of using the police to roust people in parks or arrest small drug users/peddlers.
Except... no one gets villainized when their use of force is reasonable! Cops get villainized when they go in, guns blasting. When they sit on the neck of a person for nine minutes while he gasps that he can't breathe. These are unacceptable uses of force, and yes, I think it's worse when a cop commits murder than a private citizen.
This entire paradigm is completely fucked because the whole point is that we should be providing better training and demanding more accountability. Not saying we should either have a police force that can kill with impunity or none at all
Whatever else happens is almost immaterial. Derek Chauvin deserves to go to jail. Police should be subject to additional scrutiny and held more accountable than an ordinary citizen, not less.
And again, it is an easy problem to solve. Give officers additional training. Instead of giving them the tools to essentially wage a low level war against the populations they "serve," increase police budgets so that more of these situations can be resolved without force or threat of it. And once you've given them the training and the tools, make sure to crack down on abuses of power. Look, the police are put in a position of power over others, which is always going to attract a certain personality type. But we shouldn't accept that some hyper-violent people with delusions of heroism and superiority are the inevitable consequence of having a police force in general, we should be working to purge them from the ranks of the police, not protecting them form the consequences of their actions.
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the charges/verdict is for "unintentional" murder bubs
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>the charges/verdict is for "unintentional" murder bubs
Murder 2 is murder while committing a felony... what felony?
I am surprised that people just forgot the fact that they knew each other beforehand. They worked at the same nightclub, and CBS aired an interview of a security guard from said nightclub saying they had gotten into a verbal altercation ("bumped heads") days earlier before it was taken off the air... I'm usually not one for "conspiracy theories," but the fact that this didn't earn more attention is very surprising
This feels like the polar opposite of what happened in the 90s when there were race riots and OJ was found not guilty. Today there are race riots but this time a white cop is being charged. No doubt the crowd mentality affects trials like this.
>This feels like the polar opposite of what happened in the 90s when there were race riots and OJ was found not guilty.
The Rodney King riots are more applicable
the fbi definitely didn't play any role in influencing the outcome of this one, good job guy for staying on the sidelines and letting justice play out here
A number of the typical mouth breathers in this thread still haven’t comprehended what this means for urban policing. Welcome to an accelerated dystopia boys! St. Floyd had a lethal level of fentanyl in his system, along with meth, nicotine and he had COVID, all facts from the trial, but yea, 150lb Chauvin killed him lol.
No competent white man in his right mind will sign up to be a cop in urban cities with a significant 13%er demographic, and the old guard is simply going to stop giving a shit and ride things out until they can collect on their sweet sweet pension. There are a lot of Econ majors here, so anyone please describe the incentive for any cop to do anything more than the bare minimum to sustain his job knowing that the slightest split second wrong decision may lose him everything? The next time a cop won’t even bother with St. Floyd and nuFloyd will continue shooting up, passing off counterfeits and robbing pregnant women in their homes at gunpoint (probably didn’t hear much about St. Floyd’s past criminal history, huh?) when necessary all until he expires from an OD without a cop to blame. Sounds like a great big city neighbor, right!? Oh yea, I forgot that shitlibs only live in hip, gentrified neighborhoods and wouldn’t ever dare live in those “ungentrified” neighborhoods that don’t have “good schools”
The new wave of cops will be completely hamstrung, minority or not, and crime will only increase and spiral while cops sit on their hands and let “petty crimes” like robbery, assault, open drug use, etc. fester, but I guess this is what America has become. I get that the bleeding hearts here don’t really care, because they’ll all make their money and move out to nice lilly white suburbs for the “good schools” (aka no 13%ers dancing on desks and calling the teacher a White bitch, thus fucking up the learning environment for the Whites, Jews and Asians), but it would at least be nice to acknowledge the road were on and what you’re supporting.
Didn’t read this post, but Derek Chauvin did kill him. That’s not a conspiracy, that’s a cold hard fact. Absolutely no reason you should have your body weight on someone’s neck for that long when they’ve already been restrained
Even if I agree with your latter statement, the fact that you’re so adamant about a KILLING while ignoring lethal levels of fentanyl combined with meth, an enlarged heart and COVID, shows that we can’t have a nuanced, intelligent conversation. You have one version of things, and anything else doesn’t matter; precisely the problem and why America is becoming a joke.
If we don't let cops sit on the neck of handcuffed citizens for 9 minutes with no repercussions, they'll just have no reason to do their jobs! If what you say is true, then they have no business being public servants and we will be far better off without them. You've also illustrated the systemic problem with police who refuse to hold the bad apples accountable which has contributed to the poisoned police/public relations we have today.
There is a large portion of this country, mostly white Republicans, who will find a way to justify EVERY police killing, and it's simply revolting.
^^two of the usual suspects, of course.
We all know the real answer, but if given the choice what would you choose...a fentanyl injection and meth dose to give you the same blood concentration levels as St. Floyd, or having a 150lb guy put a knee on your upper back/neck for 9 minutes?
Strawman bullshit.
If given the choice I sure as shit wouldn't pick 2 once I'd happened to already have done #1...
>There are a lot of Econ majors here, so anyone please describe the incentive for any cop to do anything more than the bare minimum to sustain his job knowing that the slightest split second wrong decision may lose him everything?
The precedent being set here will be very interesting, and it should be obvious by now to everyone that cops will just sit back and just clean up. I expect suburbs to become very valuable in the coming decade. Also, private police and security looks to be very lucrative. This could be the beginning of a two tier society.
Very disappointed with the decision.....was going to grab some new Nike's this weekend but now I gotta pay for them. WTF...
LOLLLL
I’m not correlating this entire statement to this situation, but it’s definitely apart of it....why in God’s name are cops still working? I think there has been a slowdown in NYC because shootings/homicides are way up and arrests are down or flat.
I just don’t understand why cops bother anymore. The other Minneapolis cop who shot that guy the other day when thinking she had her taser, just let him run off, who cares anymore? Cops need to completely stop working.
There are something like 60mm police/civilian interactions annually in the US. A few of those are bound to go wrong in either direction. The more contact, the higher chance you’re going to end up in trouble. Cops in the US should just completely stop working and let these cities face the music.
Because cops aren’t on the side of anything except their sweet sweet pensions. They’d literally commit genocide if it meant protecting their full pension. This verdict is a sad statement on justice and law in America, as well as 13%er worship although they will never ever achieve equal outcomes no matter how badly shitlibs want to wish it so, but I can’t feel too bad for Chauvin in particular.
The fact is any white cop still working in a major metro deserves any and all things coming for him. Impossible to say they haven’t been warned at this point, so I have zero sympathy for them.
For the life of me, I can't understand the bootlicker attitude displayed by many here who refuse to hold bad apples accountable and rather "punish" cities for daring to try and convict cops for crimes.
Throughout my career, there have been bad bankers/financiers in the news. I've HATED them. They cast a bad light on my profession and bent the rules when the rest of us were simply trying to make an honest living. I was thrilled to see them (on the rare occasion) held accountable.
What is so bad about saying "most cops are good people, but this one was out of line and should be held responsible?" Why not be honest that too many in the police force abide by a code of silence to "protect their own"? Why the reflexive need to defend any and all cop action and look for the thinnest needle to thread to justify the latest cop killing.
Was George Floyd a saint? Nope. But you don't deserve to die for passing a counterfeit bill.
Eric Garner was selling cigarettes; dead.
John Crawford was shopping for a pellet gun in Walmart; dead.
Philando Castile had a busted taillight; dead.
Botham Jean was sitting in his own apartment; dead.
Breonna Taylor was asleep in her own house; dead.
Does none of this resonate with you guys? I was a shithead College Republican like most of you and have turned into a bleeding heart liberal as I've aged, but I just can't fathom how people reflexively defend any and all police action and not realize we have a problem.
This is literally what we say when there are clear cases of police misconduct. The issue is, you "bleeding heart liberals" are the ones saying defund the entire police force based on misconduct of individuals, even when what the police have done was fully justified. For example, you leftists purposely conflate the Eric Garner case (a clearly ridiculous case of police misconduct) with Jacob Blake, a man who had digitally raped a woman, was about to drive off with children in the backseat and had pulled a knife on cops. You say defund the police over Eric Garner and defund the police over Jacob Blake. You say defund the police over Breonna Taylor (definitely a questionable shoot) and you say defund the police over the Michael Brown case, a case in which the Obama Justice Department fully and totally debunked the BLM myths and FULLY EXONERATED THE COP.
Do you know the names of any unarmed white people who have been killed by the police?
I think both sides are guilty of painting with a wide brush and discretion is needed. But there have been over 980 police killings in the past year and neither you nor I can name more than 10 of them, because the vast majority don't spark outrage and protests, as most people recognize not all police shootings are criminal, nor are all justified. There are also thousands of cases per year of police aggression that don't result in death that don't make national news.
I cannot offhand name any unarmed white men shot by cops (I do recall that white guy crawling down a hallway, but can't remember his name), but if you could be so kind to provide those names and videos, I'll add it to my list of evidence that we have an over policing problem in this country.
I get manslaughter in this case (I probably would have voted to convict on manslaughter had I been a juror), but 3rd degree murder explicitly doesn't apply in this case under the explicit wording of the law, and 2nd degree murder conviction requires evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that Chauvin killed Floyd while committing a felony assault; at the very least, there is reasonable doubt because there is dispute among experts about the direct cause of death and about whether or not the actual hold was legal or not. There is even doubt as to where the knee was--back or neck. I've never seen a conviction of murder with so much doubt as to the facts.
That said, I do think the preponderance of the evidence suggests that Chauvin's behavior was out of line, and a ridiculously large $27 million settlement was reached immediately preceding the trial, making a fair trial almost impossible.
I thought the judge's behavior was horrible, ruling almost entirely in favor of the prosecution and letting in irrelevant testimony about how the death made bystanders feel.
My prediction is that the 3rd and 2nd degree convictions get tossed on appeal and the manslaughter charge stands and Chauvin gets 3-4 years. However, I think there is a 10% chance that a mistrial is declared and all the convictions get tossed based on the atrocious behavior of politicians and media and the fact that the jurors were not fully sequestered and the fact that the judge refused to move the trial to a different location.
Also, the defense attorneys were absolutely awful. I could have put up a better defense than what they did. I also think the prosecution did a terrible job prosecuting the case but were saved by an intimidated jury that spent 10 hours considering 13 days of testimony.
Based on the media circus for the last year, can you even say the jurors were free of bias, or potentially voted out of fear of repercussion?
It's unfortunate how much people want to make the statement that some of the people who have run ins with cops deserve to die at the hands of power hungry police to incentivize the job above the petty $50K/year salary.
Literally no one in this thread said this, but keep seeing boogeymen.
Job sucks but at least I get to kill people with no consequences, amirite?
No one has said that. That's made up in your mind.
The Bible has some inciteful wisdom that young people would be wise to consider: if you live by the sword, you will die by the sword. If you live a life of crime and you resist arrest, the natural consequence of such a lifestyle results in three outcomes: prison, death on the streets, death by cop. There is no fourth option.
got it, so death is the proper penalty for resisting arrest
you are fucking garbage
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Is that the white guy literally shot dead by a cop for absolutely no reason? If that's the one you're talking about, it was the single most disgusting video I have ever witnessed. I had nightmares for days about it. It was arguably the most egregious police killing ever caught on video. And the jury refused to convict--in fact, I think the cop was found not guilty or was never charged at all. A just society would have hanged the cop for that murder, not granted him a lifetime pension.
Yes, it's that white guy who no one knows about who was crawling on the floor. The video was sickening but it gets worse. Look into it, the cop has a lifetime pension for 'PTSD' and the other cop ran away to the Philippines. His wife put out a video recently. They never even received any money or settlement and the wife and her kids are apparently losing their house while the cop continues to receive a monthly pension.
@memberberries so you only have a problem when it's white people getting killed by the cops?
Agree as well, that video was disgusting and hard to watch. Legit made me sick to my stomach. Of course it received no attention because the guy killed was White, leaving behind a wife and kids.
What the simpletons in this thread fail to recognize is there is a difference between being a bootlicker and not agreeing that Chauvin committed a murder when St. Floyd was high as a kite on a fentanyl dose strong enough to kill an elephant. Most cops are simply pension pay pigs that have a 105 IQ at best, meeting their quotas by harassing citizens that actually will pay fines. I’m not gonna cry for Chauvin, but it is unfortunate what this means for urban policing and crime in big cities.
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"It received no attention" yet all of us have seen the video and know exactly what you're talking about. What?
Great video to see the kinds of intellectual titans that support BLM and demand “justice” against police action.
https://mobile.twitter.com/AmiHorowitz/status/1384542943357202441?ref_s…
Both of them suck and brought it upon themselves. Not much to admire in either of them. Aggressive cop and dude absolutely tweaking... really unfortunate combination.
Chauvin really did act like a complete ass. I think the video was so ugly that it sealed the verdict.
I still can't believe the city paid $27 million for the life of George Floyd, who was an unmitigated degenerate who held a gun to a pregnant woman's belly. The guy was a completely worthless citizen, consuming insane amounts of drugs until his last breath. He had moral value as a human being but he's part of that 5% of society that makes life worse for everyone else.
Why do people care so much about George Floyd’s background? It literally has no bearing on how a cop should treat a human being in a situation like this. To go back and try to find things to dehumanize George Floyd (fentanyl, past crimes, etc.) is incredibly racist and straight up horrible, race notwithstanding. Nobody deserves to be murdered by a cop, full stop. Moreover, the racially charged language in this thread describing Floyd’s physicality and background are absurd. It is abundantly clear that cops regularly treat POC (especially black people) as subhuman. WSO is great for learning about finance, but (like the broader finance community) its social views are appallingly backwards. As a POC going into finance, I am always disappointed but rarely surprised by what I see in threads like this.
exactly
So since it was a such a clear cut MuRdEr to you, if forced to choose I’m sure you would take a fentanyl injection and meth dose to give you the same blood concentration levels as St. Floyd when he died over having a 150lb guy put a knee on your upper back/neck for 9 minutes, right?
It shouldn’t even really be a choice based on your logic, since the insane levels of drug use had nothing to do with St. Floyd’s death.
Ignoring certain aspects of these situations is going to be the complete and total downfall of the United States. From a societal standpoint, this has been the most one way conversation that I have ever seen. As evidenced recently by the 13 year old in Chicago involved in a drive by shooting at 3AM, who ran from the cops, was shot 1/8 of a second after he dropped his gun. The narrative is “bUt hE DrOppEd hiS GuN!”
Has it become so not-woke to come out and say: he should not have been involved in a drive-by shooting, he should not have been in possession of an illegal handgun and that he should not have ran from the cops? The message being sent to children, especially those who are from circumstances that make them prone to this is: “the cop should have.....” It never seems to be “he shouldn’t have been shooting in the street, running from cops, etc.”
Is being high and using a counterfeit bill grounds for death? No. Did it lead to his death? Yes. Does the fact that he is a multiple time felon who pulled a gun on a pregnant woman mean he needed to die? No. Did all of these circumstances put him in a situation where this happened? Yes. By completely ignoring the lifelong circumstances that culminate in these situations, it will perpetuate.
if people truly want this stuff to stop happening, it is a two way street. Until I hear that side, I don’t find any of it to be genuine, at all. The simple fact of the matter is that the more crimes you are involved with the higher your likelihood of this happening is. Unless we completely get rid of police, which maybe we should try at this point.
He dindu nuffin bro. That’s always the answer, repeated ad infinitum.
Also, the thought of getting rid of the police made me chuckle. The very next day well-off shitlibs in big metros, many of whom populate this very thread, would frantically be googling private security forces and homes in the far out suburbs. The hypocrisy wouldn’t even cross their minds, and as they move to a suburban gated community with a private armed security force they’d smugly put up a BLM sign in their window and feel self righteous.
Notice you don't see nationwide protests for Adam Toledo in the same way you did for Breonna Taylor, for example? There are plenty of people who can see nuance in good cops and justified shootings, and vice versa. I'd hope the conversation about an incident where a cop kneeled on the neck of a handcuffed citizen for nine fucking minutes is pretty one-sided.
> Unless we completely get rid of police, which maybe we should try at this point.
I'm guessing we are going to get something like this whether we want it or not (cops are likely to be more apathetic). The wealthy will have private security and gated communities, and politicians like Maxine Waters and AOC will scream BLM from behind their private security forces.
I care about his background because he's been turned into a literal idol of worship when in reality Floyd was a despicable degenerate and a drain on society. Remove the idol worship and we can have a frank discussion about how the statistics don't back up your position at all.
How is that racist lmao? That made me laugh. Because people are bringing up his drug background... its somehow racist?
I think people need to start looking up the definition of racist.
Will be interesting how this ruling impacts cases in the future and the definition of justice.
Chauvin definitely deserved to be punished for what happened, however when you see these people talk about justice it's really just being guilty in the court of public opinion. The entire country decided he was guilty before the trial began.
I also find it troubling that anybody that brings up Floyd's flaws is automatically considered a racist. All of the people saying look at the facts and the science for COVID seem to be willfully ignoring the fact about his fentanyl consumption playing a role in this.
IMO you can't definitively say or prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he died because of Chauvin kneeling on his neck if you look at the medicals/science.There are just too many variables in play to claim that Chauvin kneeling on his neck was the clear cut reason he died. Kneeling on his neck inreased his risk of dying and for that he should be punished, but it's just disingenuous to ignore the levels of fentanyl in his system.
Also, for those who deny there is a systemic issue with the "code of silence" from the "blue wall", take a look at the original incident release from the Minneapolis police department. No mention of laying on his neck for 9 minutes. This would have been swept under the rug if not for the fact that the incident was captured on video.
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What does this have to do with anything? we're talking about the murder charge.
The verdict makes sense. Being a cop is a hard job that I would never want to do but I have respect for people who put their lives on the line every day. With that said, police forces needs better training. I am not sure what kind of training that would be but the environment produces too many people who harbor biased feelings. I know people are not going to like to the term diversity training but if MLB can do it, so can police departments. There probably should also be higher educational standards for police officers. May be they should be required to get a college degree. There is strong correlation between higher education and not having biased views.
Where Is the evidence of bias in this case?
I personally don't think you can fully remove bias. It's the amygdala overriding your brain.
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