As I was scrolling through Bloomberg today, I was surprised to see an article about Fraternities and how at one college studied, joining a fraternity resulted in a .25 lower GPA but a 36% higher future income. I’ve usually heard the stat that those in Greek life have a higher cumulative GPA than those not, but again this was just one college.
They conclude: “This estimate implies that the formation of social capital that takes place in fraternities is much more than sufficient to overcome the loss of human capital from reduced studying, as reflected in poorer grades.”
Whatever the true reason for the correlation they found, I thought I’d start a thread to share different ways joining a fraternity or sorority has helped (or hurt) you professionally. During a general business course, a speaker mentioned that in the real world, there is not such a high percentage of Greek involvement as at my uni, and be careful what you put on your resume. Obviously, I know not to put Tailgate Chair on my resume, but from my reading on here, it seems like a good amount of those in finance were Greek, or at least the ones that like to spend their free time on a finance-forum were, and it is worth putting a fraternity on your resume while still an undergrad. In addition to how has Greek involvement helped or hurt you, when did (or will) you take off your letters from your resume?
It's not the grades you make but the hands you shake, bruh.
In all seriousness though, if you have e-board experience then most definitely put it on your resume if you're fresh out of undergrad. Discussing my experience as chapter VP was one of the bigger talking points in my interview for my first job out of college and my interviewers weren't affiliated.
Probably should have put this in the main post, but should you leave it on for buy-side recruiting since now that's happening within 6 months of graduating?
I've never seen nor heard of someone having their greek life listed on their resume hurting them out of college. If you're proud of what you did as an e-board member and can relate your experiences to the job you're seeking then put it on your resume since you're still a new grad.
From professional experience, there is an established inverse correlation between how little your co-workers / network care about what fraternity you were in, and how much you care what fraternity you were in.
Is correlation really causation in this case ? I mean, I'm not American and have never met a genuine fraternity member I think, but from what I gather from American entertainment, frats are there for driven, confident, socially-charismatic, and leader-type students to congregate.
You'd think it's a no brainer that they'd up on top of the food chain later in life. Them being in a frat could very well have nothing to do with it (but yes the connections made there probably help).
I didn't talk about this in my post, but in the study referred to in the article, they control for socioeconomic status and race and still found the same results.
Was going to say exactly this, I would think this is pretty much the case.
I heard one of our VPs say that he liked hiring frat guys because they were used to being hazed and understood early on the process of being treated like dog shit before being respected in the group....which is basically the life cycle of an IB analyst.
Probably not the characteristics you were looking for but just passing this along. Other than that, I've heard almost nothing about frats while working in IB. Unless you can leverage it in an interview with someone who was in your exact frat, I don't think it helps but probably doesn't hurt either.
At best, the network you develop can help you get a job or at least get your foot in the door. It can provide some interesting talking points during interviews, especially if you held one of the leadership positions (pres, vp, finance, etc).
At worst, it checks the box that you did something outside of your coursework while at university.
It's hard to untie correlation and causation here. Being in a fraternity definitely hurt my GPA, but who knows if I would have partied just as much without being a member? I will say though that the network I developed due to fraternity is the single most valuable thing I took out of an Ivy league education. I'm not talking about some random brother from another school seeing my affiliation and giving me an interview - I'm talking about developing a tight social network with 120+ guys over my 4 years, many of whom have gone on to become doctors, lawyers, bankers, PE investors, hedge fund traders, etc. While I'm sure it's possible to develop that broad and tight of a network outside of a fraternity, I have to imagine it's much, much harder. Hell, my pledge class alone (16 guys), we have: doctor, doctor, Harvard Law, NYU Law x2, Penn Law, GS trader to HF, IB to PE MF, Stern MBA, Cornell MBA, Wharton MBA, Stanford CS Masters, Harvard Architecture. Every single one of those guys would go to bat for me in a second within their networks.
Masterz57, I think you've got a solid point about the Ivy League frats. There, the connections might help you out. As Frogbefinancing just mentioned...if you can be in something like Skull and Bones, do it!
But, I can tell you that the frats in my undergrad were about forming a tight network of Starbucks managers, Geico sales reps, the odd financial advisor, and back office accountants.
Another thing to consider is not just joining frats but finding the right groups of driven people anywhere on campus. For example, I was in a very serious Econ Club in undergrad. Several of those guys are now PhD Economists.
You're thinking a bit too small. Only a percentage of guys really "made it" from my immediate chapter too, but nationally - tons have. No exaggeration, every couple months I run into someone very important whom I am "brothers" with. Does it mean anything? Not really - but it's an immediate personal connection.
just offering my 2 cents, i agree, but also a lot of times club sports teams that are social can give you a similar broad and tight network.
Wow, that's a hell of a network. Ivy League Greek Life is another level.
Shouldn't be surprising at all really. Pledging definitely helped wreck my freshman GPA and I still continue to be amazed at the amount of high-level people I immediately have a connection with due to my fraternity affiliation. (In Hoc)
Especially as a northerner living in the south and working in real estate, it's very rare that I have an interview where my fraternal affiliation isn't asked or mentioned. 90%+ of my company was greek in college and I'd be shocked if it's less than 80% industry wide in my city. Being in a fraternity is a bit of a stamp of approval that your peers can tolerate you, that you know how to have a good time and be social, that you have the mental fortitude to fight through adversity, and that you're "like everyone else."
IHSV my man
IHSV
In case those on the fence had any questions about it, the three replies here and 4 PMs in my inbox should speak to the immediate connections you can make with people you don't know at all. These connections are beneficial in life.
I'm a freemason, the OG fraternity.
Masterz57 what is your chill:pull ratio bruh.
5 5, no doubt.
Ha, I'm 30 - my days of caring about any of that are long over. All of the frat BS (and yes, a lot of it is BS) disappears just about the day you graduate. Those guys in Beta who were "the worst"? Turns out you all now work at the same companies - and guess what, most of them are pretty good guys. The amount that anyone cares about what "tier" your frat was? Zero.
Funny enough the picture they used in this article is of a guy that I know from school. He had a full scholarship and graduated with what has to be close to a 4.0. He did McKinsey>Advent>Tech Start-Up.
Greek life doesn't necessarily translate to poorer grades at every school. For example, my fraternity had a test bank that saved me hours of studying. Students without access to those resources were at a disadvantage.
It hasn't directly helped me professionally but in the vein of CRE's point above, a large number of my co workers over the years were also in Greek life and those that were not, I imagine, felt excluded when group conversation veered towards the topic. Don't underestimate the power of the "stamp of approval."
My GPA cratered the semester I pledged, but I've always been able to rely on fraternity connections for "ins" wherever I've been. This also has ancillary benefits; just a couple weeks ago I discovered that one of my higher ups is married to frat lol That got me a dinner invitation. Then there are the people in other greek orgs you can network with outside of your own.
Moreover, there are quite a few lessons on socializing I wouldn't have learned had I not been Greek that translated directly to professional success. For example I would always schmooze with older, established bros at alumni events-found a bunch of mentors that way-and also learned how to carry myself at events full of professionals in a room. That kind of intangible-I like to call it "presence"-makes a difference on the margins (recruiting functions, business meetings, etc). I don't think it's exclusive to frats, obviously, but unlike most other professional orgs, frats not only operate in businesslike fashion but have a heavy social component as well, and if you end up in any client intensive or relationship business both will be equally important.
There's no way to be 100% certain but my buddy believes part of the reason one of his fellow summer analysts didn't get a return offer was because he was a bit too much of a stereotypical "frat" guy. He talked about his eboard position a lot, was always telling the fellow summer analysts/full time analysts frat party stories, etc.
That being said, this was just one guy. Most people probably don't fit the stereotype so precisely.
Shouldn't have been acting like that guy. Sounds like an obnoxious dude.
Was it controlled for major? Almost every guy in my fraternity is business/Engineering/Pre-Law
Correlation does not imply causation - the wealthier, whiter, social, people who will probably be successful regardless are the people who tend to join fraternities. It also helps that business majors (with the highest potential income) tend to be the most common majors of fraternity brothers. Some fuccboi can't join a frat and suddenly obtain the skills needed to be successful in the business, if that's what you're asking.
I think putting fraternity experience on a resume is a good thing, as long as it's presented in a professional manner and makes it look like you're doing things constructive at your university. Putting social chair or tailgate chair is probably not a good idea, but speaking to fundraisers or leadership positions is definitely a good thing. It shows sociability and teamwork.
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