Girlfriend feeling depressed attempting to follow me to NYC - What can I tell her?
Hello everyone! I have currently accepted an offer in NYC for Sales and Trading and my girlfriend has an Engineering degree trying to follow me to NYC. Honestly, she's figured out she hates engineering and is trying to pivot into consulting/finance and although the recruiting season for full-time isn't over, the results don't look too hot.
I remember over the Summer we'd sit by each other and look at all the different apartments we thought were cool and I have kind of just watched the happiness and joy drain from her face day by day as she gets rejected from some of these jobs and has come to the realization she might not be able to come to NYC. I told her she can just come and do whatever side job she wants while she works on her masters degree, but she's so anxious about "disappointing" her family with that kind of career that she won't even consider it.
I really have no idea what to do and what to say to comfort her because I've literally said I am ok with her just going to be like a personal trainer and get her masters while I work but she cares too much about her family's perception of her to even consider that. Her entire family is in Finance with two of her Uncles/Aunts in very high-level positions - one is a Director and the other is/was the literal Global Head of a team. I told her she needs to just do what half the people in finance do and pull some strings to get into the industry but she is scared of "making it awkward" with her family.
I mean at this point it feels like she won't even put in the effort to try and make us work and is so stuck on trying to do everything herself when she has golden tickets right in front of her in the form of family connections. Her main concern too is her parents getting mad that she went into engineering and pursuing a career in finance instead. An important part of all of this - these are all her perception/thoughts she hasn't even brought this up with her family yet lmao so she's just worrying about things she might not even have to worry about, maybe her family would be supportive. Sorry for the rant, but I just needed to get this off my chest because it sounds like she is so stuck on trying to impress everyone and do things herself when it just isn't possible with her major, her GPA, and the timeframe we are into recruiting.
Any advice on what to tell her? Honestly, I want to say look, you're not going to succeed in the recruiting season for 90% of these roles - pull the strings with your uncles/aunts, tell your family you want to go into finance and are looking at NYC specifically, and if your parents give you shit about your engineering degree being wasted tell them you hate your fucking life at your current job and made the biggest mistake of your life and would rather KYS than sit at a desk ran by 60-year-olds men who suggest titty bars as the team dinner location, playing with circuits all day and saying the industry is fast-paced when the last change was 10 years ago.
Dude, that's exactly what I'm thinking and the desk he was global head at would be able to take advantage of some of her skills in CS/Data Analytics 100%.
While this will obviously vary from individual to individual, I've come to experience that people in general, and perhaps moreso women, don't actually want someone telling them what to do, but rather to simply listen when they're stressed. I'm not saying this because I think you're out of line (in fact, I think what you want to tell her is 100% reasonable and fair).
My advice would be to continue lending her an ear and be supportive as much as you can. Having been through a depression phase and knowing many others, I can definitely sympathize for her in that she won't be in a rational state of mind and what anyone says will be irrelevant. That being said, your own sanity and well-being are important too, so I would prioritize that and just be mentally prepared for the worst. If she starts asking you specifically what she should do vs simply ranting, then that's when I would drop what's been on your mind, maybe even suggest professional help - I want to give the caveat some people get offended by this, but really it's in their best interests and there's only so much you can do.
I would also consider pushing for her to address her issues with her family and really it will boil down to two scenarios - 1) her family is actually supportive of her and her troubles are over from then on, 2) her family just adds on pressure, affirming that while perhaps not intentionally, they are toxic and she should not rely on them, let alone give any fucks what they think. If this happens, you should assure her you'll be ready to support and be there for her, etc.
Thank you so much for taking the time to read this. You've really helped me level out and think a bit more rationally here and everything you said sounds so logical. Going forward, I will continue to be supportive as I know this really isn't her fault, she's putting forth her best effort in these applications and really is hoping to try and do all of this on her own when she doesn't have to.
If she starts asking specifically what she should do I'll talk about her relationship with her family and how she doesn't need to rely on just herself in this situation and that she should at least bring up her concerns with the people whose opinion she values so highly - if she's met with a scenario that just adds fuel to the fire to reassure here that I'll be there for her during this entire process and hope that she has it in her to cut them off a bit just as she at least pursues a masters in something she enjoys and pursues a career path more-so in line with what she's passionate about.
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This man 100% gets it, couldnt have said it better myself. 1 SB
You need to sit her down and make it very clear to her that using connections is what this entire business is about. Too many people think it is about understanding financial statements, excel, etc. etc. But when it comes down to it at the end of the day it is all about understanding and using connections. The rest isn't relevant. Her connections can get her in the door then it is up to her to prove herself. Note: I am not saying you need to tell her what to do, but she does need to understand what the business actually is. If she does get a job in the industry she will have to at some point use connections for some reason or another. So why not take advantage of her connections now? It is all about framing with these types of discussions. This will help you out in 2 ways. 1. She will understand what is going on and get over her issues she has with asking for help from family. 2. She will understand and realize this isn't what she actually wants to do and find something else.
Is she finished with her engineering degree? If so what kind?
Thank you for the reply, I feel the exact same way and have even utilized my referrals and connections to land myself and my friends new positions (It's a bit tricky to try and leverage my connections to get my GF a job at the same firm I'm at obviously especially as an Analyst but for friends, it worked out well). She will finish her Chemical Engineering degree this Summer and has a minor in Computer Science/Data Analytics. I told her maybe even reach out to some of her family connections in the finance business and see if there are commodities/oil trading connections she can leverage with being a ChemE familiar with ML/Data Analytics.
That type of background and what her personality sounds like she should be looking at ER jobs in industry coverage as a place to get her foot in the door if she is dead set against using her connections. Why ER? Well one it is marginally less competitive, but mostly becuase it is less cut throat. I wouldn't advise she looks at S&T mostly because it doesn't sound like her personality would mesh well with that. Good performance is critical in your first role as you haven't reached the stage in your career where you can fail upwards yet.
I think it's going to be pretty difficult to make the pivot to fundamental roles or MBB with an Engineering major if she doesn't have any internships. Based on her background Quant/Data Analytics/SWE is a possibility but the only people I know in Quant or DA have Masters/PhD (at least for the NYC office).
Honestly she needs to stop worrying about what other people think and become independent and quit being so entitled about getting FO in NYC. I don't know what else to tell you.
why isnt she using nepotism if shes so desperate
I think it's because she doesn't want to be seen as having to rely on her family for a job in Finance when her parents paid for her Engineering degree lol. She wanted to switch to CS two years ago but was already halfway into her Engineering degree and although she probably would've graduated at the same time she felt guilty they paid for her degree when she wanted to switch. Sadly that probably would've solved all of her problems as the school we go to is a top 5 CS program and very name brand for SWE lol - she definitely could've landed something with that.
Would try to explain that the non-traditional way of getting a job in finance is what is awkward, from intro calls with strangers where you ask questions you already know the answers to answered by a guy with 5 minutes to spare, to joining an industry where everyone seems pretty wealthy and connected when you are anything but, to knowing you're actually in it for the money and trying to aggressively save whereas people's family vacations cost more than your bonus. If you want to work in finance, which your gf doesn't seem to (engineering seemed interesting or perhaps she got pressured into it, turns out its not, finance seems interesting something she somewhat understands through you/her family, perhaps it will not be, but more likely than not it won't be), then asking your aunt for help is the least awkward thing you could so.
This isn't some cheat code you are exploiting, "networking" and "leveraging family relationships", which are accepted as requirements for breaking in is just code for leverage any nepotism you can exploit and I would do it in a heartbeat if I could and that's coming from someone with a huge chip on my shoulder for having the opposite background as the people I meet on WS from Greenwich. At the end of the day, it doesn't seem like she wants your advice and without a doubt the two of you have had this same circular conversation hundreds of time given the fact that you resorted to posting on WSO for advice and from her illogical responses. As the other guy suggested, why not just be a shoulder to cry on as she sorts through her own emotions? Sure there is an external timeline to adhere to, but you can't simply just make someone follow it, the last thing you want her to do is reach out to the global head person and she not be fully ready for that convo (will be embarrassing).
Wish I had an Asian girlfriend :(
whyy
Wow. I have such a similar situation this post spoke to me personally. I was in this exact scenario several years ago. My girlfriend at the time and I were both engineers, but both switched into finance post MBA where we met. We were both in IB (outside of NYC) for about two years each at respectable banks and at a point where we were re-evaluating what we wanted to do with our lives. I wanted to double down in banking, and she did not. I got an offer in NYC and she wanted to come with me. We were immigrants. I managed to cross the border ok... She had issues (there was a very defined "countdown" clock for how long she could stay without a job).
Since it was in NYC, we decided that we couldn't both live here on one income alone (even if it was IBD... it's still just Associate/VP pay at the time after all), but she didn't want to do banking. I tried to sell her on it: "This is a chance for you to chase your dreams... Yes, you have to work 'a job', but it can be any job you want it to be. Also, this is NYC. Not the middle of nowhere. It's a opportunity rich environment." Given her background, she initially looked at ER, Corp Dev, and Corp Fin (with very little success). I told her she could be a teacher or whatever she wanted. She didn't love that. I swear I was trying to be supportive, but ended up sounding like a jack ass.
This was the toughest part of my life (and I've had some modest rough patches). My g/f at the time had no real status in the country and had moved down 100% FOR ME, we moved to a foreign land where we had little friends or family, where I was working a tough job (frequent 100h+ weeks) and not much in the way of $ (we converted two months rent into USD, but that's about it - I also had no credit history, I had a shitty CapitalOne credit card with a tiny limit). The standard of living in NYC was shit. My g/f commented that the appartment we lived in (the upper bound of what we could afford at the time) was worse than any college room we had lived in since freshman year. On top of which, she had many of the exact same issues as your g/f (sans the family connections). She would apply for jobs every day, get tons of rejections (people not giving her credit for her experience of having issues with her immigration status) and watch the clock count down until ICE would deport her. I would leave before she woke up and return after she went to bed. On Fridays there was such a 'heavy download and reconnect' that it would often lead to us fighting. It sucked. I felt like she/we were never happy. I remember walking home one night at 4 am after a few 100h weeks and I stopped on a street corner and honestly asked myself: "What the fuck am I doing? What the fuck have I done?"
While it took a lot of time (and cut it f'n close to the count down - we were several months in a this point), but we got lucky: my wife was able to find a decent corp fin job at a very reputable publicly traded company (long story, but the person hiring her recognized her foreign banking experience and actually gave her full credit for it). At the time, it wasn't the dream job, but it allowed her to stay in the country with me with no real deadline. That (well known company) was ultimately acquired and she got some crazy good M&A experience from the client side. She moved jobs to another company (which also got acquired) and further developed crazy good M&A experience. Both times, she was considered a critical resource, and landed with both a transaction bonus and a retention offer to stay on. While she is typically modest about this when asked, I think she has an amazingly good resume now, having experience for M&A as both banker and client - stronger than many of the IBD people I have ever met.
That first December in NYC years ago when I got my first (stub) bonus, I bought her a ring. I think I have great friends and family, but there is no one in my life who has toughed it out with me more than her. I'm currently doing well in IBD, at a smaller shop where the hours are closer to 60h per week, but I get comp'd very well for my time (I'm originating deals that pay good fees) and I'm senior enough that as long as I bring in deals I can work wherever I wan (which allows me to be home more often). My (now) wife and I recently moved to a decent apartment where we are starting to feel like we are living like normal people. We also have a kid. Life is good now, but it was a hell of a path to get here. I sincerely wish you the best of luck. This can be a rough patch, and for us it was a defining and formative period of our relationship.
Let me know if you want to talk and I'll PM you.
I’m not going to say this brought a tear to my eye, but hearing your story gave me hope for our future and I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to comment - you have no idea how much it means to hear your struggle and how you overcame it. Fortunately, as I said she currently is working a chemical engineering job and today heard back that they’re planning to make her “an offer she can’t refuse” so at the bare minimum we both think she’ll be able to leverage remote work while she pursues her masters and hopefully ends up in a field she enjoys. I think we at least have some sort of offer to rely on. Her current employers are very aware I work in NYC because of an event we had with her company where I met some of her bosses, they joked hey you gotta stay down here so she doesn’t leave us! So I assume they know about her goal to stay in NYC. Hoping all of this goes through and would love to follow up with you and ask how you made everything work
That's awesome to hear, my man. I am rooting for you!
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