Legality of Impersonating
Hey guys. I did something a little sus for a friend and am kind of geeking right now. I don’t think I have anything to worry about but am curious about some other’s thoughts.
He worked last summer for a company that does manual labor and I guess he ended up doing a job or two under the table but the people he worked with didn’t know. There was a check he didn’t collect last year and so he went to go collect it (it was less than $1500). They were suspect about putting it in his name so he had me call and pretend to be from the company’s finance department. I pretty much just said “I am ___, from the ____ Acct Dept.” And that it was easiest to make it in his name because he doesn’t work for us anymore. And she was still suspect and wanted more proof so she dismissed me because I said all the information I have is the job balance and name.
She then decided to write it in his name because he offered a discount.
So I’m sure what I did was wrong, but I don’t think I really had a role in the overall process. I didn’t participate in the work being done under the table, I was just a phone call that ultimately doesn’t appear to be factored into her decision to write it in his name.
Thoughts? Should I be as geeked as I am or am I just paranoid?
The legal definition of fraud is to knowingly deceive someone in order to deprive another of their money/property/legal right.
The gray area here is whether or not you actually deprived someone of money that was rightfully theirs through your actions. Depends how it is perceived, did changing the name on the check deprive a company money that was legally earned in their name, or was the money legally owed in full to your friend?
I guess the company would have a right to about half of it. So say ~$600.
I know what he did was pretty black and white. I have no gain from this he just got himself in a tough spot.
My other thought is that the gain the company would have would be nothing after the legal fees of it which makes me feel better.
But even if they did come after him, I doubt he would name me because I didn’t do the work under the table. They would just come after him for their portion of the money.
Thoughts?
I would agree that it would not be worth the company's time to pursue in civil court. However, what you need to realize is that the fraud statute isn't just relevant to civil court. It's also a criminal offense, and there are no legal fees to press criminal charges against you guys. The taxpayer foots the bill for that, and the judge can require restitution. With the facts you have presented, I find it hard to believe you wouldn't be in some legal jeopardy for your role in this if it were found out/pursued. Sure, your friend wouldn't rat you out, but if you used a phone number that could easily be traced to you, you already ratted yourself out.
That said, is there a strong likelihood that the company will even find out about all this? I would guess not. You didn't say what kind of manual labor your friend did, but as long as he did a good job/his workmanship isn't faulty, I doubt anything will come of the issue. The customer got the work they needed done for a good price, so she's probably happy.
the only fraud here is your friend not reporting these wages to the IRS for taxes...you are not involved in that
well he broke the contract with his company. they are entitled to some of that money. i guess my role was helping him convince the client it was okay.
I guess I have exposure to this but it’s probably pretty small. The company would have to press charges and they would likely do that against just him.
You committed a crime. You are an accomplice in fraud.
no..because f the friend reports the income to the IRS....then no fraud was committed on his part. If the company paid the friend off-book.....that's the companys fault...not the employee
What you are not getting here is the company was not paying his friend under the table for work they asked him to do... his friend did jobs for people falsely telling them he was doing so as an agent of said company, using their name, but really just pocketing the money for himself. The company didn’t even know about the jobs.
Those customers believed they were doing business with xx company, not Joe Shmoe.
Knowingly deceiving someone to deprive someone of money is the definition of fraud.
Am I the only one who has no idea what OP is saying?
Basically my friend did some under the table work and I helped him collect the check in his name as opposed to the company he works for. It was a small amount (1200) and the company would have right to maybe half of it.
I said I was working for the company and that it was fine to write the check in his name because he no longer works for us. The client was pretty suspect about it and basically said what I gave her wasn’t good enough. So I hung up and then my friend continued to talk to her and gave her a discount for her to put the check in his name.
I know that what I did was technically illegal and the guy above is right I guess it would be considered an accomplice but I think it would be a pretty trivial matter. It was only $600. The company doesn’t even know the work was done under the table. My friend will still pay taxes on it. So if the company came after him they would likely just come after him for the money, they wouldn’t look into it as a criminal charge (they work with college students to do the work so I don’t imagine they would come after kids for criminal charges).
so maybe I’ve been watching too much Ozark. but how is your friend gonna report the money, it can’t be W2 income or stated as income from said company, because it won’t line up with the company’s records of what it paid your friend. he’s probably going to have to report it as 1099 income from the client?
Yes.
taking some fat tail risk buddy. 0.0001% chance this gets caught out but your career is fucked in that black swan case. say you make $10mm in potential career earnings from your future illustrious finance career -> you just made a poor Expected Value decision, even worse when you factor in risk/utility curves. just don’t do stupid shit like this again. for what an extra $600 bucks not even for you for your friend.
Yeah he called me and was like I need help right now. and I did it for him and as soon as I did I realized a shouldn’t have. Like you said there is a very low chance this ever turns into anything (knock on wood) but it was a stupid decision.
The homeowner was probably aware what was going on and chalked it up to whatever I’m saving money here. The company is unlikely to find out about it. Even if they did they would just come after him for the money, not criminal charges. I think I overdramatized the “fraud” aspect of it in the OP. That’s not where the real crime was against the company.
But this situation has scared me enough to not do any favors for my friends on a whim or in a split second again. Thank you for all of your posts.
Side note: it’s hard to believe that if I ended up getting fucked by this, what I did was as bad as similarly clases crimes: DUI, assault, burglary, prostitution). But again, not worth jeopardizing my career.
I don’t know anyone on here whose been stitched up for prostitution or burglary. hopefully not assault either. it’s really the nature of the crime that they look at. for example, a lot of people run into issues (which are ultimately passed through) with getting caught using a fake ID. why? because it’s fraud and impersonation. and the nature of that raises red flags with FINRA and crap.
I don't mean to psych you out but you can't just say it's not as bad as DUI, burglary, etc. If someone heard fraud, they'd run away from you.
You'll be fine though. Don't think they can trace it back to you either way and just don't do something like that. The best person to impersonate is always yourself (unless you're submitting a paper from last year for a different class: the only time you can't impersonate yourself)
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yeah thats pretty much what i’ve gathered. Not okay what happened, lucky it was so small that it will likely not come up in the future -> Lesson learned.
Genuinely, thank you for your thoughts and input.
10 years in the box brother, I would suggest you inquire about an good attorney right about now
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