All,
Hope you’re doing well. Recently got opportunities in finance to work in the middle east (Dubai, Abu Dhabi as stated in the title). Was wondering if any of you have feedback on life in general, especially with a family.
Dubai seems more « vibrant » while I am afraid that Abu Dhabi can be boring. Goal would be to stack as much cash as possible, enjoy a bit of luxury and come back home (I am European so income is tax free).
Thanks for any thoughts.
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Doesn't appeal to me at all personally. Will happily leave that to all the influencers, PTs and FX/crypto instagram scammers flexing their Dubai lifestyle.
Sounds difficult to move back into a serious role if you want to move back to a major financial centre afterwards.
duplicate
I'd love to set up a trust there, but don't think I'd want to live there full-time.
Haven't done it, but seriously considered it (went there to check it out). And I have a number of colleagues that have worked there. The tax free aspect is good, the colleagues that I know that I have done it came back farther ahead financially. I think it is good for families (assuming your spouse is on board) because usually your compensation package includes consideration for housing and schooling and the expat lifestyle is good. The travel opportunities from the region are attractive (can fly basically anywhere on Etihad, Emirates or Qatar). However, I think it would be boring after a while and it felt like you would only associate with people that are similar to you (other North American or European expats). It felt like outside of shopping and certain outdoor sports (tennis, golf, etc.) there wouldn't be as much going on (more true for Abu Dhabi than Dubai). Weather is obviously hot, but I think a lot of people travel during the hottest months.
Thanks for replying! Interesting. What would you mean by far ahead financially? Honestly, putting 100k to 150k on the side every year would be enough to stay 5/6 years then come back to Europe in a similar role (pension funds, institutional shops or decent REPE shop if possible…).
Agreed with you on the expat package, the only feedback I had so far was about an amazing one (nursery, housing, car paid by the company) which make it easy to save a lot.
Only caveat for now would be 1) afraid to come back to my home country and get a huge discount/end up in a bad company due to an experience in the Middle East, while I am currently working for a large US fund with comfortable exits and 2) end up being a super boring experience after a few months
I haven't been to Dubai, but also have not heard that it is boring.
I can't really speak to this specifically, but would say that from what I have heard from colleagues is that your pre-tax comp is pretty similar so it is an opportunity to bank whatever you would otherwise pay in tax (assuming that cost of living is similar). Dubai is less expensive than most financial centers, but depends where you are coming from.
Most people that I know have done this have stayed with the same firm so it didn't have this impact, but it is a valid consideration.
Have family in Dubai, I'm not in Real Estate or Finance, so can't speak about opportunities but can speak about the lifestyle.
Both AD, and Dubai provide an extremely high QoL for anybody who has a modicum of ability to assimilate into a slightly different type of society. It's arguably the safest country on earth, no muggings, no robery, no aggressive drunks (you can drink, but if you act stupid while publicly drunk you'll wish you never did), very family friendly, and among the educated section of society (i.e white collar expats) there isn't much racism. No drugs either, which kind of blows if you're 20 something and wanna blaze, but honestly, is a huge pro for anybody relocating with a family. Tons of things to do, and while the weather can get a bit excessive, a lot of expats plane out during the summer.
I'm from a South Asian background, and despite all the news about racism against us and black africans, it's almost all contained in the construction and labor industries. The UAE can't be compared to shitholes like Saudi, Kuwait, and Qatar either. Those countries are still backwards, whereas emiratis, in my experience, are far more civilized and chill. The UAE is legitimately one of the best run countries on the planet, and it's truly impressive what the royal families of the emirates, the security apparatus, and the business bodies have done to transform this desert into a quasi paradise. Many countries are going down, or have uncertain futures, the UAE is not one of them, and I'd legitimately say that MBZ is the best state leader in the world today.
It's not a muslim country in practice, and there are churches, hindu temples, buddhist shrines, all over the country. Very tolerant, and with the exception of ramadan, you can't really tell you live in an Islamic nation.
The only cons I can think of are the weather, and certain private employers who tend to abuse SE, and South Asian workers, but I doubt you would be caught up in that. Again, this isn't Qatar, so its a minimal problem at best. Some emiratis can be a bit closed off, but they're some of the nicest people I've met too.
I'm assuming you'd be working for a private firm. If you're working for one of the State run SWFs or something tied to the governing apparatus, there may be a few more cons.
EDIT: Just saw the family portion.
There isn't a country better in the planet, bar maybe singapore, for a western expat to raise a family. Super safe, super clean, no drugs, no homeless, no crazies, you can't ask for better. Some really good private schools, and you're kids will be exposed to a lot of diversity, in a truly good way, not a SJW way. You honestly can't ask for more, and the best part is that emirati society is extremely family friendly. Playdates should be common, and family outings with other families should be expected.
I expect Dubai to be the capital/HQ for just about all the elite families in Africa, South Asia, and West Asia in the next 20 years.
Thanks but I personally prefer being able to talk all of the shit I want about my government without getting thrown in jail and memory holed
I mean if you don’t give a fuck about Western values and the freedoms that we enjoy then you should enjoy it immensely.
It's a trade off, an almost authoritarian police state, in exchange for your safety and general good ambience. If you don't want that trade, than nothing wrong with that, though many will take it.
I live in the West and I think the trade off is more ideological than practical. In practice, if you think about it, you still wake up, go to work, eat, sleep, as you do in the US or wherever. The difference is that you can't organize a riot or criticize openly the government, things that 99% you don't do now.
I feel safe and enjoy the good ambience in the US. Safety propped up by a police state that executes literally thousands at a time isn’t real safety
Ah yes the "freedoms." I'd happily trade that for a high-quality government like Singapore's (can't comment on UAE, don't know enough about it) which is possible the best place to live on earth. Getting citizenship there though is insanely hard
As Churchill said, the best argument against democracy is talking to the average voter. In 1970s / 1980s / 1990s America that didn't matter as much but that's not the type of chill society we live in today
Not to bash Western values / freedoms, it's insane to say there isn't value there. I just think when it comes down to tradeoffs, there's a different optima. But you may feel differently and that's fine too, guess that's the benefit of having so many different governments and places. You make a judgement call after weighting the various factors (assuming you have that level of mobility)
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