Not interested in any careers
Maybe I'm just a boring cunt, or maybe my generation is just fucked by social media expectations, but honestly a lot of careers on just don't sound interesting.
I took a year out before university to work a bit and hopefully travel, and am honestly tired of work already. I do a lot of data analysis, and am basically just a cog in a massive corporate machine. I complete a project and get given a new one straight away without seeing how it has provided value in any way.
Why should I care about the company I work for? If they pay my wage, I have no interest in how they perform. I know this is a terrible attitude, but I can't escape it.
I'm getting stressed and depressed thinking about this stuff and I haven't even started my career. I have the potential to do literally any job outside of law/medicine once I complete my degree, but don't have a pull towards any of them.
I grinded my way through secondary school without thinking why, and now I am looking back and wondering what the point was.
I think I am edging towards consulting at the moment, as it is a somewhat middleground of being rewarding, somewhat varied (maybe even interesting?) and doesn't limit your free time as much.
I know this has been a bit of a moaney rant, but I had to vent.
Did anyone experience this when they were younger? How did you overcome this?
Many consultants travel Mon - Thurs. Not sure how you think that doesn't limit your free time.
Agree with this. OP, you're not splitting time between LA, Miami and Chicago... you will spend 6 months straight traveling to and living in a Holiday Inn Express in Iowa.
Not only does that kind of travel take a lot of time, it's not really "free time" anymore when most of your nights are spent in a shitty hotel in a random state in the middle of nowhere. Consulting work/travel is very rarely to sexy or interesting projects and places.
OP if I were you I'd get a regular 9-5 in an area of finance where you can hide a bit. You don't seem motivated - it's not a bad thing and maybe will come with time, at which point you can do MBA if you really want to do something. But I think a high-hour or high-intensity job would break you right now. That said, this is just part of growing up and you learn to deal with it. It's nice to have money to pay for things, live independently etc. Early 20s is absolutely difficult though.
Thanks for the response. I am yet to start university, so luckily I have a good 3 years until I need to decide what I actually need to do. I'm performing well in my current role, so I think I could definitely rejoin as a 9-5er once I finish my degree as per your advice. I'll keep this in mind!
By 'not limit free time', I was more referring to getting 8 hours sleep and enough time for a gym session or two, which (from what I've read) seems to be generally achievable in consulting. I could be wrong though!
lol welcome to adulthood. The first year of getting used to working at least 40 hour weeks will be a rough adjustment, but eventually youll get there.
It's ok to not know shit right now. Guess what? Those that think they know what they want to do also dont know shit. Its only until you do something do you realize if you want to make a career out of it or not. If you arent getting fulfilled as a corporate cog in the machine then you will likely feel that way with any number of jobs. So you can either try to find that fulfillment outside the 9-5, or find work that is fulfilling (this is harder and will take some reflection, it's different for everyone)
Dont be discouraged. You at least seem to be looking to solutions. The only thing I would strongly recommend against is making a move that requires debt financing. ex: "I dont know what I want to do, maybe Ill try being a lawyer". You think your situation sucks? Now imagine owing 60k+ in debt while hating your job. Same advice goes to settling down. Use your freedom now to find yourself a bit. If you got married with kids at 24 and hate your life you will be in a bad spot full of resenment
$60K is only worth 3/4 of a year of law school. There are 3 years. Try $270K in debt or more.
https://www.ilrg.com/rankings/law/tuition
haha I was being on the conservative side for sure. Maybe OP ends up at a directional school law program lol
Idea in general holds though. Business school program, law school, med school, etc. wait until youve spent a few years working before pursuing any of these and make sure you are absolutely positive what you want to get from it. Not "I need an MBA because consulting sounds cool".
I had a buddy who went from sales to becomming a Physician Assistant and loves his life now (good money, easy hours, meaningful work). OP may be surprised at what options are out there once you actually start working and interacting with people
Luckily I live in the UK. Not that extended education is cheap by any means (a LBS MBA still costs £100k), but still much better. I am grateful for that :)
I don't get the hate against lawyers
People don't really hate lawyers, the lawyers hate themselves. My dad worked for the DA for a couple decades and a handful of the lawyers killed themselves. The law is just boring and dull and to be completely consumed by that is too much for some people. And pretty much after you have finished law school and got some experience, most realize the job really sucks. Not only that, but you're pigeon-holed into the law field and it's hard to change to something new.
One of my friends went to Cornell Law and worked in Corporate Governance. You would think that would be interesting, at least from the business side, but from the legal side she hated it and became a wedding florist full time instead.
Thanks for the response. How much do you have to do something to find if you want to do it?
I'm yet to start university, but I'm sure I'll have plenty of work experience opportunities there where I can test the waters. However, I imagine 1 week is very different to 3+ years, and it will be difficult to gage if something is 'for me' in such a short period of time.
My biggest regret in college was not using the abundance of resources available, and the ample free time. Everything I did was a means to an end. I HAD to join this finance club because it would help my resume, of which I HAD to get use to get an internship which I needed to get foot in door for a job etc etc
I wish I just went in with less of an ego that I knew it all and really explored options. Different groups, classes, organizations, etc. Do soul searching and find out the why behind your desires. If you want to do finance or law or medicine because you love it then go for it. But if your 'why' is predominantly family pressure, impressing friends, wanting to make bank to score chicks, etc. you will be miserable.
IMO 'chase your passion' gets a bad rap. Say you love music, yea if you try to make it as a musician the odds are stacked heavily against you. But if you want to work in that industry and that industry itself is your passion - then go for it. Because you will outwork, outknowledge, out innovate, etc. the 90% of the people in any field that are just there for a paycheck and theres a very good chance you will end up making more than had you chose a safer white collar option (accounting, marketing, engineering, maybe even finance). The benefit you have is there has never been lower barriers of entry to putting a product or service out in the market place and there has never been more opportunity to monetize a skillset. The drawback is the number of distractions you face have also never been higher. Dont put the pressure on yourself to have all the answers right away. Go into life with an open mind.
Life sucks as a adult. Your friends are leaving you, your love ones die and your career stagnant, health getting worse.
I overcame it by trying different stuff and finding what I'm good at/enjoy. However, I can't tell if that's actually the case or I'm conditioned by now.
For advice I'd say try to crush whatever you do to give yourself options. Also find some mentors that you find interesting. You need some inspiration.
F**k IB. Too many hours and aligning logos
F**k PE. Too much processing work, too little investing
F**k HF. Too much volatility and turnover
F**k law. Too many soul-crushing contracts and fine print
F**k medicine. Too hard, too many years of school and residency
F**k engineering. Too little pay, too hard
F**k VC. Too much networking and connections-based outcomes, too little technicals
F**k accounting. Too boring, too little prestige
F**k consulting. Too much travelling
F**k manual labour. Too tiring
F**k AM. Markets too efficient
lmao +1SB for "F**k AM. Markets too efficient"
haha ikr, added that as an afterthought
No F**ck Tech, this concludes tech as the superior career choice.
damn you really triangulated that one out. RIP finance bros
Become an airline pilot. 12 days off a month with a starting 90k salary. Travel the world.
I kinda wanted to do this cause I always liked planes and aviation but it costs like 100k+ and takes years just to get all of the licenses and entry level regional pilots make like 40k starting. It can get up to 200k+ after about 10 years if you fly bigger planes for a major airline. Definitely a cool job tho with great perks (e.g., free flights).
Yeah, commercial aviation was always a pipe dream of mine if finance didn't work out. Wasn't even the money factor, just seemed cool. I'm sure there are plenty of downsides though - also can confirm the six-figure minimum for getting certified and licensed. Yeesh.
I did see that AA posted a 40% pay raise in the past couple of years, due to a national shortage of pilot talent. 40% raises in any industry, much less aviation, is unheard of. Technically speaking, a senior captain of a widebody aircraft could net around $550K/yr base with that kind of raise. Of course, this is the cream of the crop, usually referencing those who have spent two or more decades in the left chair. Still pretty wild though, had no idea commercial pilots could hit that kind of number.
Some regionals pay more. You’d likely not make anything above ramen budget while flying and being a CFI. Regionals can pay $80k (one of my close friends is currently a regional pilot). Then it can go up from there. Some of the top airlines (Delta) can exceed $300k after many years. More of a seniority based comp rather than performance, unless you screw up majorly.
i'm bullish on planes flying autonomously in future. I think 90% of accidents are caused by human error? most disagree with this, but I can't see past it in the next 15-20 years
My sister is a Captain on the 777 and her husband is Captain on the A320.
The 777 is my favorite plane, an elegant beast. Don't know why, just think it's the best-looking one. Also had a great experience on the A350, got bumped to Delta One which was great. The A340 is also quite a looker, although not really practical anymore w/ it's quad-engine setup. Never rode on an A380 or 747 if I can recall, but maybe one day.
Not a bad shout! I'll look into it.
Go for Big Tech PM. On a WLB adjusted basis it is as high paying as it gets. You get the money, prestige, and the time to do wtv you want. Prob why 80% are "content creators".
haha lol at the 'content creators'. Unfortunately I'm in the UK, so the tech scene isn't as big as it is in the states. However, there are some pretty interesting problems in that area, so I'll certainly look into it.
That nagging feeling of the void in your soul getting deeper and vaster will not go away - you'll just learn to live with it like the rest of us. That's why family, friends and hobbies are super important. Nobody got it any easier than you (okay, almost nobody) - switching to 40/h a week working after school is a nightmare for everyone. No one comes in prepared and and it's impossible not to get your hopes of a better life squashed very soon after starting. But, you need to make money to simply exist nowadays, so there's no escaping being a cog in a machine. The only difference is that some of us managed to build such machines by ourselves, though breaking completely free from the grind is a whole different story...
There is such a different feeling of working for yourself vs working as a cog in the machine. Even if it's the exact same task (making sales calls, formatting marketing materials, making a business plan, etc. etc.). Finding a way to do that profitably is the challenge though
Thanks for the response. I definitely agree about family, friends and hobbies being important. At the end of the day, money is only used to support these things.
I think I'm okay being a cog in a machine, but only if it enables one of 3 things:
1) I genuinely enjoy the work I'm doing.
2) I enjoy the output of the machine I'm working in - maybe it has altruistic or research aspects to it
3) It allows me to escape the machine in the long run - whether that be through living off investments (in the case of traditional finance/consulting path) or learning skills to create a new machine (entrepreneurship)
Having said that, you are correct. It isn't possible to not be a cog or own a machine. So if you can't achieve any of the above, there isn't really any other option.
Do some introspection to understand what are your expectations about life and what needs to be done to live and work the way you would want to. The more ambitious and unconventional those expectations are, the more work you'll need to put in. In positive psychology, the entire idea around depression is that if you have high expectations (mind) and reality doesn't match that (circumstances), you either (a) Lower your expectations or (b) Change the circumstances, otherwise you'll be depressed (not applicable to clinical depression). In your case, either work around your perspective about life and work or keep searching for something that interests you and can cover your bills.
I always recommended to those that have no clue what they want to do in life to read the following article: How to Pick a Career. It's a long read but could help with the decision-making process.
And generally, you're issue is a modern social issue. People don't do enough introspection to understand what motivates them and what they want to accomplish. Instead, you're constantly pushed back and forth by entertainment, your phone, others' expectations, peers, etc. and you never have time to be alone with your thoughts and understand what you want out of life. The best medicine for that is to retreat from time to time to philosophy to remember what life's about and how one should live it (especially if you read Socrates, Plato, Camus, Nietzsche, and the Stoics).
Thanks for the response. You are correct.
I remember reading that blog actually after someone else (it may have been you!) posted it on a different thread. Very insightful - now I just need to value my tentacles and find a match shape.
The ones that are interesting you have to be the top 1% of the top 1% of the top 1%.
i think the best career is being a general manager of a team or sports agent.
I think this has a lot to do with your attitude. You start out with "Maybe im just a boring c-word"... I think you need to adjust your outlook on life, you sound like you're in a perpetual bad mood
I agree, I have spent so much time scrolling through this website trying to find the answer to my problem, and the more time I spend, the more I get disappointed with reality. As soon as I leave this bubble I'm fine - but then when I go to work, again, I'm constantly thinking "is this what my life is now?".
You don't live to work, or at least you shouldn't. You should work to live.. View a job as a means to afford a life that brings fulfillment, whatever that may be. I think a large problem in society today is the idea that we should only do what makes us happy. You don't need to be happy 100% of the time to have a good life. Find a hobby that you enjoy outside of work that you can use to give you at least some ambition in life. The "woe is me" attitude won't get you very far.
OP - you're young, it's completely natural to have these thoughts/fears. You've had some great responses already, as an early 30s guy who did the standard IB/PE route here's my two cents:
- Firstly, I completely echo what others have said about consulting not necessarily being the best fit given what you've said. As the guy above pointed out, trust me you're not going to stay in LA followed by San Francisco then on to Hawaii - the reality is staying in a Marriott Courtyard (or worse) in Iowa or Idaho, working on some very mundane project for a mundane client. I haven't worked in consulting myself but have multiple friends that have - don't get me wrong, it can be a great career if that's what you want to do with your life. But definitely don't do it because you think it'll be like "House of Lies" - trust me you'll very likely be disappointed!
- As others have said, unfortunately this is the "real world" i.e. you have to spend a minimum of 40hrs a week working for some corporate/finance overlord. Yes you could say the pandemic has made wfh mainstream and so you might not be chained to a desk for 40hrs a week, but in reality you still have to get the work done if you're at home, and that comes with drawbacks too (less ability to socialize, as a young person you're stuck in your modest apartment share etc rather than being in a nice office).
For me personally, whilst I realize finance is ultimately just an "office job" (albeit very well paid relative to other office-based careers) it's also sufficiently interesting/varied for me to not hate it most of the time, and even enjoy a lot of aspects of it. There's no real "perfect job" out there for most people, so you just find something that you enjoy enough to make a career out of (at least that's my advice). But yes any job including finance comes with a ton of pointless bs work/bureacracy/company politics etc - no real way around that sadly.
- Also I would try as much as possible not to judge yourself by what you see on social media. As even very successful influencers do in fact "work" pretty hard at it (and this is coming from someone who dislikes influencers in general) - you hear stories of them getting up at 6am with a camera crew to get that perfect city shot with no people around for instance. And whilst I personally wouldn't ever consider influencing a career, my point is even most influencers have to deal with tons of drudge work behind the scenes. Anyone who isn't doing that and seems to be living their best life 24/7 either has rich parents e.g. Dan Bilzerian or is probably doing something shady/sketchy (crypto scams or worse).
Equally even NBA or NFL athletes have to endure constant gruelling training to maintain their performance - on game day however you don't see that. I think social media is very similar in that I can imagine many of your friends/acquaintances post extremely curated windows into their own lives, including how they perceive their job/career. Trust me - whether they're a banker, lawyer, athlete, influencer - without doing the hard drudge work they won't be getting that far. Even if you were in the top 10% (or top 10 even) of your class at college - that makes no difference to you having to "learn the ropes" painstakingly over the years in any career.
My personal advice based on your post - as others have said, maybe look for a finance role in a big company where you don't have to work too hard and see how you find it (you can always ramp up your work ethic later). And try to see every work experience as a learning experience - i.e. if you join a company and absolutely hate it, that isn't something you should fret about - rather it's a valuable lesson for you in what kind of work you don't want to do. Trying to keep an attitude like that will probably help you in the initial stages of your working life.
Finally - without being cliched, it's a marathon not a sprint. More than that, you're only racing against yourself - it's not like school/college where there's a defined "path" and clearly defined measures of success/failure (e.g. exam results). If you want to go work at a non-profit and help people in developing countries - good for you. Likewise if you want to strive in IB and join a MF PE firm working 100 hours a week so you can save enough to retire early - also good luck. Most people on here will end up somewhere between those 2 options lol - and there's no objective right answer, only what's right for you. Good luck OP.
Thanks a lot. I definitely agree with the 'window' point. It's something that, despite being aware of it, still manages to irk me.
Based on your advice, I think I might try to delve into more 'learning experiences' during my degree. My only experience is less than a year at my current firm - straight out of sixth form (secondary school for US), so I really haven't explored as much I should have to be complaining. Who knows - maybe working super long hours isn't a problem for me. I'm being super pessimistic in my post, but you are absolutely right - I haven't even learnt that I hate basically ANY career on this site.
I have a more personal question for you:
What is your experience with your IB/PE path? You say finance is just an office job, but there is a huge difference between your office job and my office job (in terms of hours, comp and "prestige" - not sure why this matters personally). Would be interested to hear your reflections on your path as compared to the standard corporate job.
For me personally, I'm happy with my choice to do IB/PE and couldn't really picture myself doing anything different. Not because I'm some "finance hardo" who is obsessed with prestige, but rather IB/PE for me personally seems like by far the best option. Yes it has a lot of drawbacks e.g. unpredictable hours, late nights (especially when you're more junior) but it is interesting and varied. It's a cliche but no two days are the same - you wake up planning to just update some quarterly reporting slides for one of your portfolio companies, when suddenly a buy-side sale process kicks off! I mean look at the news that DK Partners and Apollo are moving to buy up big chunks of SVB’s portfolio - bet that’s something the guys there weren’t even considering/thinking about 2 weeks ago! So because of macro or company specific events your job is constantly fluid, which I like personally.
Also you're surrounded by very smart/intelligent people for the most part. That can have its downsides in that a lot of them are competitive and either douchebags or somewhere on the spectrum, but it's also very rewarding and means you're always learning a lot. And the money is a big plus - I don't live as super-extravagant lifestyle (have a Porsche but that's just because I like cars) but I've been able to buy a 2-bed apartment in a HCOL city, and take trips all around the world without worrying about the cost. Having money really does give you a lot of freedom. I don't have kids now but when I do, I won't be worried about putting food on the table for them. And dating is certainly easier when you're not sweating about the cost of a bottle of wine at a restaurant, and can afford to take your date to nice bars/restaurants or away on nice weekend trips!
For me personally, I would loathe a corporate job where I just come into work and do exactly the same thing day in day out for 40hrs a week, where I'm not learning anything new or progressing in my career (both in skills and compensation). It would honestly be a chore for me to get up for work in the morning. But that's just me - other people out there would despise the concept of working IB/PE hours and just want a 9-5 office job where they can get away with doing the minimum (you probably won't find many of those on WSO to be fair).
Also it's worth pointing out that others get that same satisfaction of an interesting job without the money part - e.g. immigration lawyers, people working for non-profits etc. Clearly that pays far less than finance, but it's also arguably more "rewarding" (although again that's dependent on the person). Of course I know that I'm not saving humanity working in PE, but as I said for me it strikes the right all-round balance of money + interesting work. And I think the second part is important even in finance - people who just go into IB for the money only and actively hate the job (or find it deadly dull) tend to leave after a few years - and again there's nothing wrong with that, "real adult life" is all about finding your own path that gives you the most satisfaction. Bearing in mind you will never find that perfect job with zero downsides - even being POTUS or a Prime Minister has a ton of downsides (I wouldn't even want the job personally, not that I'll ever have that dilemma lol).
take this from a guy who did the exact opposite of you, spent high school carrying on and not doing any work, went to a crappy university, but ended up in a cushy 50hr a week role sending like 5 e-mails a day... all of these jobs suck major donkey dick and I'm convinced everyone eventually realises they are working hard only to enrich other people at some point :) if I could start from scratch I'd be an orthodontist
Are you sure about that? The average person's teeth are fucking disgusting. Just went for a full cleaning/whitening session yesterday for the first time in 2 years, the lady wasn't impressed.
Interesting - why orthodontist?
He's led a rigged life and wants to straighten things out.
My good god. you sound exactly like me a couple of years ago. What I would tell my younger self is the following:
First off, don't indulge in your nihilism. It's a typical attitude of young smart people. You will not get anything out of it.
Secondly, find your passion and most importantly strive for excellence. In my case, I was very lucky to find my passion in prop trading. I love what I do. I wake up every day looking forward to the next. I don't feel like a paper pusher rotting in the office as the hours tick by.
If you digging enough, you WILL find some industry or job that at the very least will not rot away your soul. I found mine you can too.
The most important thing, never forget: NOBODY WILL DO IT FOR YOU.
Thanks for the response (along with everyone else).
I have PMed you a couple of questions - if you have a moment I would love to pick your brain apart about a few things!
I've thought a lot about my own career over the last few months and, admittedly, for some of us the idea that you aren't sure where you want to be never really changes. What I'd encourage you to do is flip this around and ask yourself what you are looking for with your next step. Not the 5 steps after, not the career at the end of the line. What is it that you value today, that the consulting/IB/AM/PE/McDonald's (or whatever) gets you. Starting out you can afford to make mistakes, take a role that you aren't necessarily sure of and pivot without few consequences. Value that above everything starting out - the flexibility you have now will never be quite as high.
I'm roughly 10 years into my career and I still have virtually no idea what I want to do - which sounds insane to most people, as I've built a really nice career so far at my current firm. I've had a ton of different experiences, roles, built skills, a network, and taken on management responsibilities for an entire function. All that said - I've no idea what my next step is. A few false starts, some paths I thought I wanted but ended up deciding not to go down. All that said, I'm still looking for that 'thing' that makes people go 'I'm all in'. I envy that in a lot of people, who are able to solely focus on a goal - whether that's climbing through PE or simply being happy with the role they have.
On your existential questions about caring about your employer - I think that you should match the level of care that they provide to you. When you find yourself in an environment where the frim supports you, invests in your growth, maybe you have a mentor, or just a really good team - that's about as good as it gets. There aren't many situations out there like that, so if you find it - I highly recommend you hold onto it. They do exist.
My last thought for you, something I struggle with more than anything else in life, is to be kind to yourself as best you can. I know, I know - it sounds a bit like a Hallmark movie, but it's really true. The worst thing you can do is beat yourself up, put yourself down, or stress out constantly over things that you are entirely in control of. Cynicism is the easy way out. I recommend you choose, as best you can, to be optimistic. View things as opportunities, experiences, and ways to grow. Perspective is largely a choice, as crazy as that can sound in the moment.
I think that's one reason I'm getting stressed. The opportunity cost of pivoting increases very quickly, so I'm overthinking years ahead. If I decided that PE was my passion, my love, my thing, I could get ahead now. Then I would be able to climb through and reach the PE heaven quicker. If I work in a corporate for 5 years, it will take much longer reaching PE heaven. Although I suppose, if PE is the passion, then this isn't a problem.
Fun fact: I did actually work at McDonalds (for a year and a half during my last year of sixth form / beginning of this work year). Very few benefits outside of being surprised at how insane some customers can be, but looking back worth every minute I put in.
Thanks for the reply. I am normally a lot more positive - I just had a moment of weakness which has been rectified by the WSO monkeys :)
This is pretty common when you face external expectations that conflict with internal expectations, and lack both conspicuous talent or material responsibility.
If you could do anything, what career would you want to pursue?
Unrealistic:
1) Ice cream taster
2) Pro football (soccer) player / Pro mma fighter
3) Lifestyle/travel influencer
4) Film watcher?
5) Entrepreneur (something big/meaningful, not a local kebab shop)
Realistic:
Not sure. Maybe an architect, but in the UK you need a degree (and more) in architecture, and I have applied for Mathematics. I could possibly take another year out, but my parents would destroy me, and even then, there is no guarantee that I get onto a good course.
To top it all off, I'm not really sure if I am interested in any of these. I like ice cream. I enjoy playing sports/fighting/working out. I enjoy travelling. I enjoy films. I like the idea of being in control and growing something big. I like the designing of buildings (in particular houses). But that does not mean I will like any of these roles.
You can always do pro MMA fighting on the side. Someone from my college eventually was able to create his own MMA gym and runs it. He had an engineering degree but fell in love with combat sports. He seems very happy with his choice.
You’re edging? Pm?
Sorry, I'm not really sure what you mean. I'm down to PM.
I feel bad for you man. Most of us managed to get into finance because SOME part of it genuinely interests us. I really like my job and I hope you find some kind of skill, service, task that you are good at and enjoy doing. You don't need to love it, but like it enough. Do you do any favors for friends? Like are you good at fixing cars, setting up the wifi, summarizing the news, managing money, or selling things? Anything like that could be something you do as a business. Check out the concept of ikigai.
Also you might not enjoy being the cog, but being closer to the action. Having more of a stake in the results could help your motivation. Do you think at 18 years old Henry Kravis was bitching about having to get a job?
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