NYC: Brownstone vs Condo
In NYC, would you rather a brownstone or a condo all else equal. Thinking mainly BK but doesnt matter. Assume you have a budget of $4mm. All must go towards the purchase. Trying to see something
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I went through this decision a few years ago and chose a condo but it was a close call (and still considering whether I’d want a townhouse in a few years). That being said, I chose a very small condo building because one thing I really wanted was privacy and not having to deal with a bunch of neighbors. While there is a wide range of townhouses, in condos that range is much wider (big building vs small, amenities, doorman vs not, number of units per floor, etc).
My thought process was:
1) I wanted a small building that felt like a home (both work for this)
2) I wanted outdoor space (townhouse usually a bit better but really depends): I ended up with a condo with lots of outdoor space
3) What pushed me into a condo was that I didn’t want to worry about all the little maintenance things and while I don’t need amenities I wanted the overall building taken care of. That as well as feeling a bit safer without direct access (and multiple entry points) off the street.
So basically I chose a condo that was pretty similar to a townhouse (private, outdoor space, multiple floors to have separation between entertaining space and living space, etc).
Thanks, also comcerned about privacy. Did you find the townhouses to be more expensive but with condo fees it was a wash?
I found townhouses to generally be more expensive but that’s because 1) I was looking at homes in west village 2) I wanted something that was “nice/updated” and 3) I wanted space but not a ton of space. So with that, the renovated/nicer homes in WV are generally also a fair bit bigger than what I needed right now. So if I wanted something with the higher end finishes, etc, it looked like pricing was 1.5-2x (but also usually had a lot more space, etc). I also wouldn’t count the HOA savings at 100%, since a good chunk of those fees are used to upkeep your building, and when you own the whole building you’ll be spending a reasonable % of that yourself (depending on how many amenities there are, etc).
How much for the condo?
A bit above $4.5mm the townhomes I was looking at were more like $8mm
There is far more to this decision. Primarily taxes, if you want to go the brownstone route you NEED to make sure you get the correct tax class. The city is going to be rocketing up property taxes soon and there are specific classes that will be protected by thsee. Condos are not one of those. I would buy a tax protected brownstone with a shit interior and renovate it over time vs a nice condo in a non tax protected building.
This is the most important answer here by far. OP, read closely on all tax laws appropriated by the neighborhood and vicinity. Can end up paying out the ass without it, which will alter your decision-making by far.
Side note - if I was going to return to NYC, the 'shit Brownstone' is my absolute dream. Renovating an older building to an ultra-modern finish, yet still keeping some contemporary industrial elements is my dream kind of design piece.
Site ate my last post, but the short version is that "all else being equal" is not true. Brownstones are homes - they require a lot of maintenance and you'll be doing it yourself. Condos are easier - yes, you have less flexibility with your dues and fees, but there is a super to take out the trash and to fix a plumbing issue and so on and so forth. The only way to answer this question is knowing what you prefer - my schedule, my strengths and weaknesses as a person, all of that makes a difference. What about receiving packages? Letting in a cleaning woman? All of this factors in.
Good points. Condo services are def something I probably need
Do you like the separation of space a "house" affords? I think brownstones are great because you can sequester private rooms up top and public spaces on the ground floor. Brownstones generally have at least a small yard, which is always a plus. But the conditions in the walls and under the floors of a 100+ year old building are going to be far less predictable than in a 20 year old condo. Flip side, newly built condos often have major construction issues which haven't been found yet. Sure, the wiring in your brownstone might be antiquated, but your also less likely to have a piece of the facade fall off randomly (assuming you do pre-closing diligence).
As I said, there are a ton of issues everywhere you look, and unfortunately "all else being equal" doesn't apply, because the two assets are by their very nature not equal. I will say that on a PPSF basis, brownstones are more attractive, by a lot. But that isn't all their is to it.
Probably a condo, having a brownstone seems like it could be a safety concern although it's a huge flex IMO to say you have a NYC brownstone / townhouse in a desirable location.
I do know of a senior banker (S&T, not IB) that has a BK brownstone / townhouse and those homes are not cheap. The $8M mentioned above sounds about right for a high quality one. Don't know the banker all too well but I believe he spent around ~$10-12M.
That's on the expensive side. A large and renovated Manhattan brownstone, in a premium neighborhood, will run you that much. In Harlem or Morningside Heights you could probably find in the $4-5mm range
In ritzy areas of Brooklyn (Park Slope, Cobble Hill, etc) really nice brownstones usually run $4-7mm, and if you're further out, in secondary neighborhoods like Bed Stuy or eastern Bushwick, $1.5-3mm is about right.
Don't have any data for it but everyone I know whose family purchased a brownstone/townhouse a decade ago or more has seen a ridiculous ROI. Know of one family that bought a townhouse for ~$1-2m in the 90s, and now live in one floor of it and make over $20k a month renting out the other floors + the townhouse is valued over $10M now.
Obviously that's crazy luck but there's some additional benefit with a townhouse in the value of the land and potential optionality to rent out half the townhouse / other floors.
Brownstone without a doubt is more prestigious than a condo, at least under $20mm
Brownstones offer classic architecture and a sense of heritage, while condos provide contemporary living with amenities like doormen and fitness centers. The decision hinges on personal preferences, lifestyle, and the allure of either traditional or modern urban living.
Brownstones if I could afford. Until then, condos
Phil Falcone sold a double wide townhouse for $80 million.
https://www.mansionglobal.com/amp/articles/philip-falcone-sets-nyc-reco…
What - how even
Phil Falcone situation is beyond a mess, with a lot more to it, from what I've heard...
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