I'm raging right now. There was plenty of talk about it, but now it's reality. How far is this going to go?
A plan to triple the tax rate would hurt all shareholders..
...Mr. Obama is proposing to raise the dividend tax rate to the higher personal income tax rate of 39.6% that will kick in next year. Add in the planned phase-out of deductions and exemptions, and the rate hits 41%. Then add the 3.8% investment tax surcharge in ObamaCare, and the new dividend tax rate in 2013 would be 44.8%—nearly three times today's 15% rate.
Keep in mind that dividends are paid to shareholders only after the corporation pays taxes on its profits. So assuming a maximum 35% corporate tax rate and a 44.8% dividend tax, the total tax on corporate earnings passed through as dividends would be 64.1%....
Full story from WSJ
I am angry also dude. Posted something including this an hour ago haha
this is ridiculous...
This is why Democrats are idiots...
Can someone explain to me why fucking over investors and corporations is good for the economy?
On top of that, they blow all this tax revenue on paying people who don't deserve this money.
Any Democrat to answer this question competently, I will pay 20k.
In the near term, of course it isn't "good" for the economy, but if it closes the budget deficit it's beneficial in the long term. Unfortunately there needs to be some pain to undo huge loads of debt. ANT will just tell you to cut all social programs and non military discretionary spend, but some people don't find that palatable and it likewise would hurt the economy in the near term. It's really a matter of ideology and foresight as to how people approach closing deficits.
PayPal?
So Duff, who pays corporate taxes? You think companies just tell investors they get less because of taxes? No, investors get pissed and companies increase prices, lay off workers or do something else to offset the increase. That or people save and invest less, move away from dividend paying stocks, etc.
Simply cut spending. Real easy. We need billionaires to go to Congressmen and tell them they will set them up for life once they pass these severe cuts. Just tell the people what they want to hear, pass the cuts and don't even waste time running for re-election.
The "people" always want something for nothing. They should not be given this. Cut entitlements and allow people to be free to succeed or fail on their own merits. If you fail, so be it.
Cutting social programs will hurt the economy?
The problem is lack of smart people. We pay social security taxes because people don't know how to invest for retirement. We pay for "projects" that hire public employees at the expense of private employees. We pay for unnecessary unemployment because people are too lazy to look for jobs. There are millions of jobs available, but people are not qualified for them. Why take away money from people who stimulate the economy to give it to people that live paycheck to paycheck. We should stop the insanity and teach the poor/uneducated a lesson.
Cut them off.
Investors are evil. If you work hard and save your money you should give it to the government, not invest it. If you invest it they will just find other ways to steal it back from you.
Only good government is a small government.
Seriously, lower risk returns are shit. So they force everyone into the equity market to try to beat out inflation, and now they are taking away that avenue. Where are the productive members of society supposed to park their fucking capital? Not everyone is an accredited investor. Once again the middle class takes it right up the ass, while smiling. As long as Facebook and whatever bullshit is on TV can let people escape the reality of how shitty their lives are becoming...and if I even remotely have to think about unfunded liabilites and entitlements right now, I'll have a stroke.
See that's the thing. We aren't closing any fucking deficits. They are spending like it is going out of style. Have you seen the defense cuts? Many of the big ticket "cuts" are really "delays" scheduled to ramp up in a year or two.
This should help out the muni market... trying to figure out where else to park my money safely.
Can someone email Obama this: http://www.oaktreecapital.com/MemoTree/It's%20All%20Very%20Taxing%2011_… , I don't have his email address.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact
http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact[/quote]
I wrote to the big BO:
"Can you please read this: http://www.oaktreecapital.com/MemoTree/It's%20All%20Very%20Taxing%2011_…
and then amend your tax policy accordingly.
Best regards,
Oreos"
I asked for a response too. Let's see what he has to say.
Haha, read this a while back and thought the same thing
Wait I just read that Obama plans to cut Corporate Tax rate down to 28%...why do you all not agree with this?
He's cutting the tax rate, but getting rid of loopholes. Corporations will end up paying more taxes.
Corporate tax rates are bullshit to begin with. Why would I support "cutting" them when they should be at or near zero.
I'm not sure I understand...if they should be at or near zero wouldn't you support any policy moving them towards that end?
FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU Obama
How would people like to close our ~1T deficit?
You close it over a 10-15 year time period. Once you fundamentally reduce the size of government you will more easily be able to do this.
Look at how much the government has grown in the past 10 years. Dept of Homeland Security is a huge example. TSA is a joke. Dept of Education is not nearly $100 Billion a year and schools still suck.
Cutting the DoE would save $1T in 10 years. Slim down the DoD. End the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Make SSI needs based which would fix it immediately. Eliminate tax deductions and move towards a simple tax. That would increase revenue and get the government more out of our lives.
Stop rewarding people for personal decisions. Why should someone benefit for having a kid, getting married, buying a house. The government has jack shit business encouraging these personal decisions.
And if people suffer, so be it. Increase the tax deduction for charitable giving and you will see a nice increase if you care about helping people.
This country is a mess and government and spending continue to grow. How do people think more government and more spending will be the answer?
"Of course, the White House wants everyone to know that this new rate would apply only to those filthy rich individuals who make $200,000 a year, or $250,000 if you're a greedy couple. We're all supposed to believe that no one would be hurt other than rich folks who can afford it."
Basically dividend income gets treated as ordinary income for people above the income threshold. Article doesn't state impact on those below the income threshold.
No way this gets passed. You can only hope he is intelligent enough to realize this and put it in as a bargaining tool.
If the Republicans would stop pandering to a bunch of illiterate young Earth creationist buffoons, I'd be able to take them somewhat more seriously.
Seriously, we need to elect Santorum so we can fight Satan! That's how we'll fix our debt!
How living paycheck to paycheck =/= stimulating the economy? Consumer demand is the driver of the economy, investment simply creates supply to address demand... If every dollar of a paycheck is spent and cycled through the economy, that would typically have positive impact.
Delete some of those interior quotes for christs sake. This is ridiculous.
We're trying to get a WSO record for longest post.
Hard to prove it was money in exchange for a vote.
No, flatter and lower tax rates are good for both.
No, I agree with flat for both. If the government wants to tax income or revenue, do so, without the social engineering.
What I find funny is Obama is big with the environmental crowd, but one of the greatest destroyers of the environment is owning a home and commuting to work. Apartments and living in cities is efficient and less pouting.
Its wild that the industry he chooses to subsidize is manufacturing...GM isn't exactly carbon neutral. It is pure campaigning.
America has an absolutely terrible tax code as is. It is so complex that it is difficult to interpret and enforce...we have a tax court. Where you can argue. It should be a simple question: did you pay your taxes? The largest contributor to the debt this past decade was tax evasion...its a lot harder to dodge a flat tax or something similar.
What a shitstorm.
eeew dividends gross, lets talk about capital gains.
All jokes aside I think Obama is trying to make America more like Canada, and that is a good move for everyone involved.
Yeah that would be fucking awesome, eh?
Canada is awesome simply because it has the USA.
How long before Obama or some other leftist prez reneges on ROTH IRAs?
Roth are for lower middle class Americans - you won't get far by cutting those... Politically and for the budget.
Unbelievable. Just unbelievable. We need to address the spending problem before even thinking about raising taxes on anybody. This will affect everyone who owns stock in any way shape or form--those with 401(k)s, pension plans, etc. It's going to devastate the very people he's trying to protect.
Exactly. No matter what we do with the tax code, its a drop in the bucket relative to the size of our deficit. The costs of our entitlement programs are exploding, with Obamacare about to make the hole that much deeper.
We are at the point where cutting entitlements is the only option. This is exactly what bugs me about the democratic party- they claim that cutting spending will create fiscal drag. It will, but the alternative of letting the debt rise will also slow growth. Ken Rogoff pretty conclusively demonstrated that anything over 90% of GDP starts seriously affecting growth. We are there, and, once growth slows, it will be that much harder to get out.
just dont bring that shit to canada Stephen Harper... i love my low dividend tax rate... that reminds me... i havent done my taxes in 4 years... maybe i should go take care of that lol
Interesting discussion. Blaming Obama is rather.... silly imo -> the right is a bigger spender than the left is (possibly because the right always goes rabid once the left is in office, but that's a totally different story).
I think they should flatten ALL corporate taxes (none of that ish for manufacturing, that's just replacing one loophole with another).
I think non-401K capital income should be taxed like ALL other income.
I believe everyone should pay tax no matter how small (yeah, I also believe in progressive taxation)
I also believe inheritance taxes should exist.
I do question - why can't government work well? If it doesn't work well, why shouldn't the natural push be towards improving and "fixing" government, instead of killing it, like republicans appear fond of doing?
Yes, they were subsequently modified by Dems/Reps to their current incarnation - but they are all Democrat creations and they are the largest portion of the budget.
Defense is peanuts in comparison due to the long term obligations of entitlement programs (defense can be slashed at any time). Much harder with entitlements.
Hmm.. point taken. However, in order to have a properly mobile capitalism-based work force, some sort of national (hence cheaper and more stable) medical plan would be required. I know people who are reluctant to change jobs because of the good ol' "preexisting condition" issue with health-care providers. We all know that's not going to fly. But the current health-care set-up has the weird side effect that people are reluctant to change jobs lest they get burned by their new employer-based plans.
I have no solutions here, I just kind of wonder.
Some argue that a minor increase in taxes would put the question of medicare to rest really quickly. Social Security? That's currently running at a massive surplus (though we all know the government has already raided that fund, and diverted the money elsewhere).
And - defense really can't be slashed at anytime can it?
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