I'm currently in undergrad at a regular old state school in the midwest and have been having a lot of thoughts on what I will do once I graduate in a year and half. Joining the military is one thing that I have wanted to do for most of my life (ever since I went to the Dayton Air Show). However, since I am pretty close to graduating at this point, ROTC isn't an option anymore.
I have considered OCS but am unsure if I would be able to get in right out of college. I have been a commuter for most of college and don't have a bunch of EC's and LoR people I can turn to. Would enlisting and then trying for OCS be a better plan? Right now my only real concern is my age. I will be almost 26 when I graduate, and in turn around 30 when I would be leaving the service. Is 32ish too old to be leaving an MBA program?
The number one reason I want to join is to serve my country, and this has always been true. Of course, the leadership experience and other things I would gain along the way would be great as well.
A few other questions I have:
1) Would I be able to get into a solid MBA program if was never an officer? (top 20 lets say)
2) Would my age upon entering the private sector be a thing that works against me?
I'll add more as I think of things to ask.
In my opinion, there is no clear cut answer here. I'll just lay out what I'm thinking.
I wouldn't worry about all of your LOR coming from professors... I had 3 people write for me: A Police Chief, a Former E-9, and a state Senator... Got in first try to OCS (it's going to be different for each service and I can't comment on AF). You do however, need some extra curricular on there.... at least for my service. They look for Leadership, Extra curricular, grades, recommendations, etc.... kind of like school.
I got my commission at age 25, and got into Duke this year at age 30. I won't be able to go until next year, so I will be 33 when I graduate... it feels old. Especially since I'm essentially pressing the reset button after seven years of service. I was told flat out, GMAT aside, that I was too old and shouldn't waste my time applying to HBS and a few others. At my age, I'm definitely one of the old dudes in the class. I've posted a few questions about this because I'm a bit concerned... it will depend on your industry is essentially the answer I get.
The enlisted to OCS route is a good idea in my service at least. I don't know about the AF (I realize you don't actually name a service...just guessing). I would apply to OCS and if you don't get in...
Per the getting in from the enlisted corps....I know a couple guys who did well. One is at Wharton. It completely depends on what you are doing. I don't think the general public understands the difference anyway. And I would posit that most military guys that screen packages wouldn't be so low as to hold the fact you are enlisted against you. Again, people only care what you do and how well you did. If you go in and act like an 18 y/o E-3, etc., etc. But if you get in, make the most of your experience and maybe take some masters courses while your there.... that'll look good. A lot of enlisted dudes get a full Bachelors while working full time at jobs that take 55-65 hour weeks and deployments.... that looks good; do the equivalent and I think you'd be pretty competitive. Play Call of Duty and hang out at the clubs and you're probably not....
I think the other guys on here need to talk about age going to private sector.... I don't know because I haven't done it yet.
Hope that helps.
Thanks you very much for that post, it helped a lot. As for what service branch, I have been mostly thinking Army or Marines.
What schools discriminate against older applicants besides HBS?
Just a personal recommendation, if you intend to go in and want to be competitive for some of the better positions, apply to the enlisted positions first, and then the officer positions. That way, you can be in the running for both - you can't apply for enlisted after you apply for officer, though.
Also, if you want to apply, start the process at least 6 months before you want to go in. Getting in shape for spec ops or something could take 3-4 months, and it may take a month or so before to get processed in MEPS.
I heard about one guy who did poorly in his first two years of college, decided to drop out and go through the seals for six years. He then went back and finished school, did better, and then was accepted at MIT Sloan. I think the thing is, we are in a dorky profession, and most people who are in these mil fields are too cool and lead such amazing lives that they wouldn't want to leave to play with excel all day.
Since you're not making a career of the military, definitely go Army...larger force=more opportunity, and you won't be in long enough for differences in culture to matter much to you.
Go see a recruiter ASAP, and tell him you're very interested in an "oh nine sierra" contract, and have zero interest in anything else. Most people joining the Army get some kind of bennie, be it choice of first duty station, airborne school, cash, there's (when the economy is good) quite a menu. The 09S option is a guarantee of going to OCS. Not saying you couldn't get OCS otherwise, but if a guarantee is available, that's gotta be a lot more valuable to you than a signing bonus, right? The only caveat I have is that, with the economy in the toilet, the government is understandably less generous with the toasters, jam-of-the-month-club memberships, and other tchotchkes that they hand out as signing bonuses. Still, the threshhold for officers being higher than that for enlisted men in all economic conditions, walking in with a BA and half a brain should make you a no-brainer 09S enlistee. Just make sure you read the fine print twice as closely as you would when borrowing money from the mob!
Thank you for that ^. Very informative, I was not aware of the O9S option before. I have heard that the Army is more generous due to being larger, but wasn't certain.
Anyone else have anything to add regarding age when getting in/out of b-school? How old is too old to be an analyst in IBD?
Bump
Agree with march10k, I am currently in the process of separating from the army after 5 years and going to b-school. I know several guys who enlisted on an 09S out of college. Make sure however that you go and talk to an OFFICER recruiter. The regular enlisted recruiter guys have no interest or knowledge on officer programs and will likely try to sell you a bs enlistment contract to make their numbers. My advice is that you have a college degree so go officer. If you have a solid undergrad degree/gpa plus 3-4 years service in the armed forces, you will be very competitive for any mba program.
Also, a word of caution.Our military commitments will extend in some form in Iraq/Afghanistan for the next 3-4 years so you will almost certainly get deployed to one of these places. People don't like Americans there. They will shoot at you/blow you up. I have had friends get killed or seriously injured and handicapped for life. This will stay with you long after you leave the service.
OP, from what I've read there are plenty of people who graduate with their MBAs when they are in their early to mid 30s, so I don't think that is a ton to worry about as long as your work your butt off networking and getting a good summer internship.
I've read around that most of the branches are tightening up on officer recruiting. The supposed reason is that they are used to attrition from officers leaving, but since the economy isn't doing to well, officers aren't leaving. Apparently that is making it more difficult for a normal person with a college degree to get into and officer training program, because you are competing a lot more heavily with the ROTC and academy grads.
Anyone have any insight on this? Like the OP I am also considering joining the military, it's just been stuck in the back of my mind lately. Unlike the OP, I've been out of college for a year and have a pretty decent job already (would be taking a pay cut to go in as an O-1).
I have a little insight into this. The economy is slowing officer attrition somewhat, but the real driver is that the military is downsizing over the next few years, and changing somewhat at the same time. Certain categories of officers that require very advanced skills (postgraduate education, language ability, and so on) are expanding at the same time that the overall officer population is shrinking, so the generalist officer jobs are drying up even faster than the bottom line shows.
NPR00: Consider that you could also do something cool, like going in to spec ops or specwar and get a training that would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars if it was available outside, plus priceless memories, a network and respect for serving, and assorted other shit (so long as you dont die/get your legs/eyes blown away). Enlisting isn't a bad option at all; Ive heard of guys enlisting to the seals and going to top 5 mba programs after.
Interesting thought for sure. It would be amazing to be part of the spec ops community. I know seal contracts are extremely tough to get though.
So go in to EOD or swcc. Seals are only tough to get in to because you need 20/20 vision and because its hard to pass the training. But you can get lasek, and anyone CAN pass the training if they want it bad enough.
Yes, and most people in good health CAN do it if they actually WANT to. But most people don't really WANT to, or they get some unfortunate injury during training or something, and don't continue. Not that its impossible to get in to the training. This is the special thing about the seals - they WANT to be seals so bad that they push themselves, and their classmates, through hell week - most people don't want to try out, take the risk of not getting in and then pushing themselves through to become seals. Thats what makes them truly special, and why specwar guys cant be mass produced - most people simply dont want that lifestyle and to push themselves like that. One of the few things I can compare to is studying for a test - you can study for a test and get an A, or study less and maybe go drink the night before and get an A- or B+ maybe. Do you say its tough to not drink or stop studying? I think its just more accurate to say people don't want to get A's bad enough.
This is just another reason to do EOD though. They attach directly to the seal squads, go through most of the same training (parachute training, underwater etc), and only have 4 year contracts as opposed to 6 for seals. Apparently they also have a better work/life balance because after the two year training period they go through six month rotations in war zones and in country, though that has been less in the past few years.
Seabird, the person you are describing is literally the top 1 percent of the top 1 percent. Also, Navy EOD is not the poor mans Navy SEALS. The training pipeline is over a year long, all EOD are getting IA'd like crazy in addition to their regular deployments, plus you are working in a position where you will have to deal with live unexploded ordnance every day. EOD gets much respect in the military becuase these guys really are wired differently and are doing really critical work right now in Afghanistan, Iraq and other places that aren't going to make the news.
OP, I'm not trying to dissuade you from serving, I have gotten so much out of my service and I would certainly recommend it, but you need to realistically evaluate yourself and motivations before making the commitment. All branches and MOS's in the armed forces are crucial to the mission, not just the cool and sexy ones.
TK: I in no means meant that EOD is lesser than the seals. They are true badasses, and I'm well aware of their bravery. I was pointing out that in some ways, it is more attractive than the seals - though they are both extraordinary things to do with your time, and make my balls look about the size of nerds in comparison. Shit, I dont know how those guys ever sit down with balls that big.
Of course, this talk of SEALs and EOD could all be moot if OP doesn't like water.
I wanted to emphasize TK's comment about all MOSs are important... he's right... we had a conversation on another post about the misconception that having a sexy job gets you into b-school easier... not the case.... I spent six years in a job where everything had velco on it and I can tell you that as an MBA applicant, it didn't matter... what mattered was what you made of the experience. During my application run last year, I spoke with a former military guy at HBS and he told me that you were less likely to get in with a "cool" job than you were with a "big-(service)" jobs...... of course there are SEALs, SF guys, etc., but it is not the majority.
If you go, do something you're passionate about and pour everything you have into it and you will find success.
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