I work for a BB now and am based in an office in the Midwest. While it's not 100% sure yet, an opportunity has come up where I might be asked to move to NYC. If I do progress to a discussion on relocation, I want to be prepared with some information. So I'm coming to WSO to get some "boots on the ground" knowledge from you good people. Here's a brain-dump on what's important to me and would love to hear your collective thoughts:
1 - I'm a mid-career professional, so some of my needs might be a little different than the SAs or first years that are moving to New York. I prefer to hear from people that are a little further along in their careers.
2 - I am single with no kids, so things like schools and childcare are really not important to me. I'm also not someone that needs a lot of space, I live fairly modestly.
3 - My biggest concern is salary expectations. Online relocation salaries say I need to ask about 2.25x my salary for a move to New York. That strikes me as a little high, but you guys would know better. For the sake of argument, let's say I'm coming from Dallas and make $200k - both of those items are wrong, but close enough.
4 - Along the same lines, I'm concerned about taxes. I pay (relatively) low taxes now but I know that won't fly in New York. Is it better to live on the New Jersey side? I hear property taxes are killer in NJ. It is possible for me to be based out of Jersey City to avoid NY taxes if that makes a difference.
5 - My second biggest concern is my dog. I have to be close to a park where I can walk him every day. I'm not giving up my dog to move and the move will be hard on him regardless. So I need lots of greenery to have him enjoy our daily walks (we do two walks a day and the dog park nearly every day for him to run around). He's only 20 pounds so I think that should be acceptable for most buildings, right?
6 - Perhaps not a deal breaker, but close - I want to bring my car. I know, I know . . . But I grew up in LA, a car is like a necessary extension of me. I have an SUV and I have a 911 being delivered in September. At least one of those cars is coming with me - guess which car I'm willing to sell? :) What am I looking at for parking? I wouldn't mind storing my car somewhere for weekend use as long as I know its safe; I'm assuming there's places for that.
7 - Again, LA, I don't do public transportation. I want to be walking distance of the Tribeca area (you guys are smart, please protect my privacy). I think I'm a buyer for most studios/1 BD under 600K. Am I dreaming or is that possible? I define walking distance as 1 - 1.5 miles. My team only reports to the office 2/week so I also wouldn't mind a location that lets me Uber/taxi for a reasonable amount.
Thanks in advance.
Nvm, just saw who posted this lmao
$600K in Tribeca will probably get you a small 5th floor walkup studio like this:
https://streeteasy.com/building/376-broadway-new_york/5d
Here are what the other ones are priced at:
https://streeteasy.com/for-sale/tribeca/beds%3C=1
Yeah under $600k goes just about nowhere, assuming you want something that's not some 1st year analyst apartment (i.e. doorman, laundry in building, not a total gut, decent area). 1.5 miles is most of Manhattan. Might be worth visiting for a weekend and seeing some places, but a redone 1 bedroom in a nice area thar you'd want to live in at age 30 is at least $800k - don't forget $1.5-3k of monthly maintenance (includes taxes) on top of that. NYC market is at all-time highs right now.
I personally am anti-JC - you just never end up coming into the city because it's such a haul, especially on weekends when the PATH sucks, and while it's cheaper you miss all the amenities and lifestyle of Manhattan. Even if you're not a 23 year old analyst, there's still some benefit to being in the city for a few years.
Good news is the city is pretty dog friendly, with plenty of dog parks. You won't have open off-leash greenery except in Central Park (great for weekends) but there are great dog parks in Tribeca, west Chelsea, Washington Square Park, Tompkins, and a few downtown towards Fidi. Tell your realtor you have a 20 pound dog, some buildings are strictly no dogs. But generally not a problem.
Parking is $500-1000/month. Public transit will take you in all directions outside of the city... I was a huge car person before moving here, but it is really such a waste for something you end up using every 4-6 weeks. Sell the 911 for a profit in this market and wait until you move to the suburbs in 5-10 years.
You guessed wrong on which car I'm selling.
Lol well either way parking is so expensive I'd just sell both - everyone I know with a car gets rid of it after 6-12 months. Get a Zipcar card if you want to drive to the country occasionally.
Check out Hoboken right across the river and a short train ride into the office. Very dog friendly, prices are moderate, solid crowd of young professionals, clean fun and "New York" but without all the craziness. I enjoyed my time in Hoboken. Not a bad commute over at all, about 15 mins to 33rd street. I guess if you’re mid-career though I’d expect you can afford Murray Hill, Soho, or any of the hot spots but honestly even living in those places, the city wears on you. I guess it depends on preference. If you want the “New York” experience live right smack in midtown somewhere and you’ll have a ball then burn out in a few years and want peace. As I age I enjoy things closer to the peaceful side but still lively. I found that in downtown Hoboken
I appreciate the reply. I have looked at that Murray Hill & Kips Bay area, I think some items are in my price range. How far (time wise) do you think the commute is from there? Like how much is an uber from Kips Bay to Tribeca?
20-30 minute uber, more during rush hour, probably $40
not sure if you're anti subway but Tribeca is kinda hard to get to on transit from Murray Hill / Kips Bay - also you will be surrounded by 24 year old analysts in either place, for better or worse
West Village is cool - you can just take the red line down to Tribeca. The stance of not using public transportation in NYC seems dumb.
The city doesn’t “wear on you.” Maybe you personally. NJ sucks.
Isaiah_53_5 💎🙌💎🙌💎 Yeah personal choice but I think Hoboken's pretty chill. OP, kips Bay or Murray area down to financial district isn't that bad of a train ride. I wouldn't even Uber it unless it's late and you're drunk, prob like 15-20 mins train ride one way but it's easy, shouldn't be any transfers or anything. Just jump in a train that goes downtown and you're there. If your bank is still doing Uber then that’s great too, could be same amount of time or more during rush hour but you don’t have to deal with the rest of the commuters. For commuting to work I wouldn’t discount the train, not a terrible commute and it’s a nice area to live for sure
Your observations / questions in the OP are not realistic and betray a set of expectations completely dislocated from reality based on your income (no offense). Based on your questions I am going to make the hopeful assumption that you have not looked into this in earnest yet. Save yourself the time, you can't afford it - stay in the Midwest. Unless you can get a 3x on your salary to relocate.
Yikes. Chilll iggs, ya diggg. Sounds like OP is serious but doesn’t know where to begin which honestly I understand about moving to New York
OP is talking about being a buyer for most “studios/1 BR” under 600k in Manhattan proper; he is decidedly not serious.
Going to be tough on your budget and lifestyle expectations. Tribeca is one of the most expensive zip codes in the US. Sorry.
I love the premise of this post:
”I’m moving to NYC and want to make zero compromises.”
Let us know how that works out for you.
So you're the kind of monster that would give up his dog for New York? You're willing to call up your Porsche dealer and cancel an order on a brand new 911?
It's good to know that, son.
I'm a car guy and in the age range you're soliciting input from.
Here I'm also a bearer of unfortunate news. You aren't going to get each of the things you're asking for in your post.
I'm not familiar with the online salary comparison thing, but intuitively I'd say it's not far off. If anything, it's low given the idiosyncrasies of your particular amenity requirements.
From how you describe your car, I know you're the kind of guy that isn't gonna be happy in a generic Edison or Icon what-have-you. Garages in New York are tough.
You can pay through the eye (I'm talking $1,000+ a month) for a dedicated space. That's if you can find one, and any you do are absolutely not going to be conveniently located. Most are in the bowels of a giant building in Midtown West, Times Square-ish, or FiDi. From that you should infer 'absolute hell to access and drive away from during the times you're most likely to be driving'.
You can self-park in a very limited number of public-access garages. There's one on 42nd between 9th and 10th. There used to be one on Delancey and Essex but I'm not sure if the Essex Crossing development changed that. These usually offer a monthly pass for unlimited access. You run the risk of Tom, Dick, and Harry dinging your shit up as they get in and out of theirs on either side. You have no recompense at all in the event anything serious happens; there aren't cameras, and the fine print of your purchase makes the garage immune to any claims. Some regulars will buy those custom cushioned covers you can order online. You will see some supercars tucked into corners, which is nuts to me. And some guys bring their own cones or safety posts to line up in a row on the dividing line between spots.
You can trust a public garage. This is where you buy a monthly pass and leave the attendants the keys. This is stupid with any real car, in my opinion. There are countless horror stories. Attendants unfamiliar with angling to avoid scraping on ramps with significant grades. Joyrides around the block. Transmission damage from idiots who can't drive manual. Fender-benders where an attendant pulled it out into the row to make space to rearrange others and an idiot customer hits it. Scratches and dings from other customers with umbrellas, strollers, or unruly kids.
You can find a building with resident-only parking. This is the holy grail. It's basically impossible as a renter, and unfortunately out of your budget as a buyer. In luxury buildings, a deeded spot can come close to your entire purchase budget.
Beware that a lot of public garages at this point refuse vehicles over a certain dollar value due to insurance concerns.
You could see if the the Mandarin Oriental offers monthly for non-residents, there are always super and hypercars on trickle chargers down there.
And lastly, there are newer services like Hudson Stables and Paddock that are not cheap but remove a lot of this friction for you.
The dog is another wrinkle. You're right that his small size works for most buildings with a weight limit. But your insistence on proximity to a big park makes it tough. Most people walk their dog on the street.
Taxes are going to hurt regardless of whether you're in Jersey or the city. Jersey is something you shouldn't think of as part of the city. It sounds harsh, and I mean it with no offense to anyone who chose it and loves it. It works for the people who value the things it affords (rent savings, ease of access to stuff outside the city).
Until you've experienced firsthand the irritation with the inconsistent or thinly-spread timing of the PATH on evenings or weekends, the irritatingly high cost of repeated Ubers each time you aren't willing to put up with that, or the light that drains from the eyes of a date or hookup when you tell them, you won't fully comprehend how removed it is in reality.
So to recap, you're facing a mountain here. The dog isn't a huge hurdle, but you're likely not gonna be too close to a big park. The car thing is really tough. Your budget is not gonna buy you anything, as others have pointed out. And your ideal location is one of the most expensive areas in the city. If you value each of these things a lot, you may be better off staying where you are.
I get it. It's an abrupt adjustment coming from a smaller city where any finance role at a major institution makes you a good earner relative to your lifestyle costs. Assuming your profile tag is correct, you're probably in a pretty comfortable spot.
I think New York's value proposition is really compelling for young people who are looking to explore and maximize future optionality, for people in hyper-specialized or -competitive roles (hedge funds, prominent private equity funds, trading, etc.), or for comfortably established people on a favorable slope of success. Otherwise it's hard to stomach such a significant portion of your income evaporating to taxes and lifestyle expense.
I think you fall outside these buckets. You're further into your career, you're not on the maximally-demanding-yet-higher-paying path in finance, and your role can be done in a Midwest city with lower cost of living. Are you sure this makes sense?
Happy to answer anything specific that comes to mind.
I appreciate the thorough reply. To your point, I don't have to make the move, I'm in a good spot now. Some of the factors that have me looking at NYC may or may not involve a promotion to the next level so that will certainly factor into this. It's a fluid situation to say the least.
I think most people that have replied have ignored the fact that I said that I'm willing to be walking distance to Tribeca, I don't have to live exactly there. So what am I missing in terms of housing? Zillow shows more than just a few places under 600K - maybe only walkable on the sunniest of days but otherwise a reasonable Uber ride in (again, it's just 2/week). What else am I not considering about buying that has so many people recommending renting? I haven't amortized a mortgage in a while, but payments on 600K should still be close, if not less, than renting at (as an example) $3500 - $4,000, no? If you could speak more on the rent/buy I'd appreciate it.
Things to consider when buying:
1) mortgage
2) HOA fees ($500-1500 a month)
3) real estate taxes (about 1% of purchase price per year)
4) closing costs which are different than other places. Primarily: a) mortgage recording tax (if you buy a condo) which will be ~1.9% of your purchase price (one time fee at closing) b) mansion tax (if you spend more than $1mm). All other closing costs are similar.
5) potential maintenance and building funds: in a co-op you need to figure out whether a building is a land lease or not (as that can spike the monthly fees to extreme levels). If condo or co-op you want to make sure you look at how well the building is run and how much $$ they have in reserves, you can get hit for large maintenance bills if the building has issues
Additionally, the $600k units you are finding are probably garbage. Under $1mm there is not a lot in nice areas (solid building, etc)
what do you mean walkable on the sunniest of days? That makes it seem like an entirely different neighborhood. Keep in mind that the city is very walkable, but not always nice to walk. All of winter is unbearably cold, slush everywhere. Summer you'll be sweating after a block
A level promotion should help a lot, although I'm not familiar with how corporate banking comp scales with title.
Walking isn't great in New York. I did see this but forgot to address it earlier. I'm one of the least 'New York is dying' people on here, and some of the outlandish takes people have on quality of life eroding really make my chuckle, but there are a couple things to point out. You don't want to walk super far. It's not a pleasant experience.
Housing. You aren't familiar with the peculiarities of New York. Photographic effects can make a place look bigger. A bargain-basement price probably indicates a building with awful maintenance and no amenities, run-down fixtures and appliances in unit, and a location that's tough in ways that might be hard to understand from Google Maps.
For example, some blocks in Tribeca and Soho are an access or egress path to/from the tunnel. This means you'll hear honking 24/7, and if your inexpensive unit has bad windows, thin walls, and old floors, you'll really hear it. And during the summer, it's gridlock Friday-Sunday, so you can't Uber or taxi to or from your building, you have to walk several blocks for a pick-up or drop-off. I'm not joking when I say you can spend an hour on Broome trying to get from Lafayette to the tunnel entrance at 4:00 on Friday.
The advantage of renting as a newcomer to the city is you can get a feel for how all of this works. You understand the minutia of streets, blocks, or areas that are absolute no-go's. You learn what neighborhoods work for you. Do you love a light and airy unit because the streets are spacious at the cost of a quiet, empty area that doesn't feel lively at night? Flatiron. Are you okay with a smaller footprint, walk-up, and noisier streets that are packed with boutiques and restaurants? Nolita. Do you want a tower with every amenity in the world that's a little more sterile and could kinda be in any major city? Midtown West, FiDi, etc.
Deciding to buy as your first landing spot after a relocation is like getting a tattoo from the first artist you meet. There's a whole world out there, why rush to commit?
Transaction costs also add up, so if you're upwardly mobile, buying to sell in three years or less is a whole lot of hassle for not a lot of profit.
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3. I assume you'll get some bump in moving to NYC but not 2.25x. I don't know what the differential is
4. Property taxes are only a thing if you buy. NYC has both city and state taxes. NJ will be cheaper both for rent and taxes. There may be more of a commute, depending on locations. People do this though
5. NYC is one of the most dog-friendly cities. Dog walkers everywhere, doggy daycare, etc. Lots of green spaces and dog parks. 20 pounds - no issues. You may have to pay a small upfront pet fee. You may not be near a park and most people walk their dogs along the street
6. Garages in NYC are $500 - $1,000. Not sure about where to put it outside the city. Keep in mind the cost to go get your car.
7. Studios / 1bd under 600k will be pretty nasty. Look to rent. NYC is one of the worst markets to buy (from rent-to-buy math for like-kind apartments). Can find good studios / 1 beds in Tribeca for $3,500 - $5,500
Thanks, this helps. I'm not sure I'm expecting 2.25x either, I think that part was clear in my OP, definitely sounds high. But I do want some bump if even just for the taxes alone. Going from a low-income-tax state to NY is a massive change.
About the nasty 600k places - is that correct? Even just a cursory search on Zillow shows some possibility in 24-hour doorman buildings and some reasonable looking pics. Again, it's just me & my dog, I'm not looking for all the space in the world here. Maybe not in Tribeca proper, but close enough, no? What am I not understanding here?
One thing to know about NYC is "X-adjacent" is not X. You can be on a super super nice block, but you go 5 blocks away and it is not nice. Would be curious what you're seeing. I assume you're either looking at FiDi in between huge buildings that go no light, but feel free to post examples.
Why are you set on buying?
FiDi is about the only place you could achieve finding a studio in the sub $1m pricepoint. Good news is FiDi is just south of Tribeca.
Another key thing to pay attention to is the type of unit you’re looking at (I.e condos vs co-ops). You don’t want to buy a rancid 500k co-op that you’ll never be able to resell.
Also, for parking, check out the LAZ battery parking garage. Was sub $500/mo to park. Several other sports/exotic cars that park there. However, their rates may have been higher as they had a dedicated spots on the first floor.
I think if you could stomach public transportation youd really up your game
a 200-300k salary for a renter in Brooklyn can get you a very sweet set up! Lots more parks there for your pup and from what i can tell more room for a car. If you’re considering NJ but not BK that’s a big mistake — especially if you’re working in Tribecca, the commute is really not that bad.
My suggestion is to rent for a year and then buy. It sounds like you don’t know the city well. If you are going to be in Tribeca, the best reasonable parking I found was at Pier 40 on the west side highway. That was 20 years ago though. I also would recommend focusing on the west side. I worked in tribeca for Citi. I started in the east village and found it to be a pain to get to work so I moved to walking distance from the office.
To make what could be a really long post/response short, it sounds to me based on your OP that NYC isn't for you and you won't be happy there long-term as it doesn't gel with the lifestyle you seem to be accustomed to and desire.
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Property taxes are actually way, way lower in NYC than in Texas. It sounded from the tone of your post that you are thinking about buying, so this is a meaningful savings (or, at least, offset of otherwise higher costs) that you should be taking into account. Living in NJ will likely hit you with higher property taxes, though I'm not sure.
If you plan on renting, ignore the above.
Can confirm. Property taxes in Texas are the next big issue about to rock the housing market outside of the astronomical price spikes alone. Because of the combo, Austin is now considered "unaffordable" in terms of purchasing a home. And Collin county up north finally made the top 25 list of places that are unaffordable now too. The taxes were already going up in absolute terms just due to valuations, but counties (school districts really) are ratcheting up their tax rates alongside thus inflating the inflation issue further.
Sorry to hijack the thread....but this is a bit alarming. I knew NYC was bad, but this bad? How far would a TC of 180k go in NYC if I plan on renting, am single, have no other major expenses or debt? I don't plan on living like a king, but can I get a decent room and some groceries every month??
$180K is plenty to be comfortable.
Thanks! Just had to double check because I've heard a lot of people say anything under 200k TC in NYC is "poverty" level, but I'm guessing this is just an exaggeration.
For those that asked, here's a couple of examples I found on Zillow that would appeal to me. Again, maybe not within Tribeca proper but these all look livable to me. So go ahead and pop holes in these please:
Comes with a deeded parking spot: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/25-W-13th-St-APT-5RN-New-York-NY-100…
Across from a park, I think it can claim Tribeca-adjacent: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/303-Greenwich-St-10F-New-York-NY-100…
Maybe not walkable but I think there's shopping close to this one: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/21-S-End-Ave-APT-231-New-York-NY-102…
Again, just pulling some quick examples here. The map view on Zillow for under 600k shows availability in a variety of areas in Manhattan. They can't all be trash.
APAE
Username_TBU
That’s tough living for a mid career professional. How much do you make currently and what’s your NW?
It is bizarre to me that someone would live like this, and have a Porsche in NYC. I really think you need to spend more time in the city and figure out what life is like there.
Lmao, it is beyond bizarre that this dude as a man in his 30s (?) wants to live in a 430 sq. ft. studio from the 1980s while rocking a Porsche. Definite 1st-year analyst vibes here.
Are you looking for a co-op or a condo? There’s a massive difference in price and other factors. Obviously. The first one you posted is a co-op.
The second one is 429 square feet lmao…I mean that’s cool I guess if that’s where you want to live. It’s been on the market for 105 days, nobody is jumping over themselves here, so it probably has some pretty significant deficiencies.
Third one is another tiny, ancient (1988) studio in Battery Park. Yeah.
Bottom line: Everything in the 600K price range in Manhattan proper is going to by definition have some major shortcomings or flaws. You can’t just look at a few pictures to understand what those shortcomings are. I feel like these points are beyond obvious to literally any semi-intelligent adult. Also you’re not going to get a “good” 1 bedroom; they will all be pretty crappy tiny studios similar to the ones you posted, that also may or may not be co-ops.
Thanks for posting. I looked at the last two. Yea, these are what you can get. 21 S End is not a good location. Like, you will not want to be there long term. 303 Greenwich is a very good location (I used to live around there). But you want to be in that apartment for 5 years? That thing is tiny. Couch, love seat, inconveniently located TV. No dining table. That kitchen... If you'd be okay with it, go for it, but man, living in that long term won't be fun. Trying to date with that apartment when you tell a partner you live in Tribeca won't be fun. In addition to your mortgage, you're also paying $2k in monthly charges / taxes
Each of these is small, the second one criminally so. If you're buying with the traditional logic and holding for a multi-year period, I can't fathom how you'd be comfortable living in something that size.
Presumably you'll be dating. What is she or he going to think when they come back and see your bed, desk, couch, and table/chairs almost stacked on top of each other?
You mentioned you only have to go in-office twice a week. This means you're working from home three weekdays and whatever weekend spillover you have. Are you honestly going to be happy spending 10 working hours daily in something that cramped?
The first one is a co-op. I assume you're familiar with or can Google why co-ops are cheaper than condos. Also, that parking is public. Do you want your 911 in that corner with attendants and other customers coming through?
The second one is under 450 feet. Enough said.
The third one is not in a great location, every picture screams 'tired' or 'old', that kitchen looks rougher than some dorm rooms ...
It would probably be helpful for you to take a weekend trip to the city and look at two dozen apartments across different neighborhoods. Get a sense of what $3,000 gets you in a rental. Compare that to $5,000. And $7,000. And check that across a couple neighborhoods, like Tribeca, Hudson Square, West Village, West Chelsea, Hells Kitchen.
Again, I'm a car guy and have made lifestyle choices accordingly that look irrational to someone with a different utility profile. And I guarantee you you're going to get more value out of allocating more money to housing and less to fixation on a car you're not going to be able to use the same way you can in your current geography.
Do you have to take the move/new job or can you stay at the company where you are at? From all the comments I've read it sounds like you don't want to compromise a lot (which is fine). It seems like your overall lifestyle won't be as nice even with the pay bump.
Sounds like you probably shouldn't move, and if you do you absolutely should rent instead of buying (and sell BOTH your cars before moving)
Reading your OP, holy fuck you are so whiny. Sounds like NYC isn't for you kid.
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