I recently graduated from a PhD and started a job in NYC. I am just getting used to having a big yuppie friend group - mostly in consulting, finance, etc.
I notice whenever my friends meet up they discuss restaurants / rooftop cocktail bars in the city, sharing google pins and also travel destinations (usually in Europe) that they went to and that everyone HAS to check out. A bit of this back-and-forth sharing/one-upping, followed by a bit of work-related drama/banter, then yet another $70 interaction is over that I’m left feeling a bit unfulfilled about. Is this common for everyone else too?
Back in grad school I was broke and stressed BUT the conversation was so much better and varied in comparison. I’ve recently caught myself wondering - when people make good money do they just become like this?
it's to make up for a personality deficit and lack of intellectual stimulation.
the intelligent and interesting people you want to meet aren't working jobs in consulting, finance etc...
people in finance, consulting, law, tech are the risk averse people who want prestige without having to put in risky "work"
to justify their decisions they try to one up each other to win the meaningless game.
Don’t forget - these people are now also part of your social and professional network. You can’t really keep it real like you can with your college buddies when you had nothing to lose. Talking drug use, illegal shit, politically incorrect topics or views, etc.. are essentially a big no-no when careers are potentially at stake here
that's why people should go their own thing : d
oh wait they won't hahaha
You arent wrong but I love how you reply to a post about how risk averse these people are with a suggestion to limit conversation topics due to impact of their careers which is again just showing how risk averse and feeble these people are
I've noticed this as well as I've gotten older. The risk aversion extends from work life to social life. To try to break the mold in either setting is to risk failure or alienation, and for many people this is their greatest fear. I've seen guys that used to be pretty cool become drones whose life revolves around their responsibilities and obligations. I'm probably one of these guys, unfortunately. I've maintained sanity by keeping old friends that aren't in my work circle, and I can keep it real with them when we (infrequently, I'll admit) get together.
To be fair to these people, they have probably always been rewarded for sticking to the playbook and discouraged from spending time on things that don't contribute to their conception of "success", so it's not totally a choice that they're making to be "boring". OP, keep in mind that there might be people in these groups that feel the same way you do, and aren't doing anything about it, like you are.
Travel and restaurants are good topics but in moderation
Bars...look I like drinking once in a while but 99% of the time it's completely superficial
The best friendships and conversations are made through vulnerability, something men generally suck at due to insecurity or fear of judgement
Probably because no one can be bothered to get into intellectual topics after working 80 hours a week.
Why do people talk about anything?
Makes sense to me, after a long day you don’t really want to have deep discussions, there is a place/time for everything and that’s not it
that's personality-dependent, usually at work people don't talk about heavy things and just shallow things, and some people want to have more interesting things to talk about after, unless it's an industry event then it's just more of the same which can be draining oftentimes.
Depends how close you are
Office personalities becoming their real personalities. I tend to keep it like this in the office too, but no way is this all I talk about with the real ones.
Never be impressed unless you meet someone that’s been to Dorsia on a Friday night
I've been to Dorsia on a Friday night. I was largely unimpressed until they brought the Sea Urchin Ceviche to the table and it was to die for.
Recently graduated with an MBA and moved back to the NYC area. Can't help but chuckle. This is how I've been feeling lately while I reconnect with some old friends who are in well paying jobs (100K+). They didn't seem this materialistic when they were barely making ~40K out of college.
Because people default to shared experiences. Everyone eats food. Everyone travels.
If you want to talk about niche interests or the origins of consciousness or something, find people who share those interests.
God, the self-centeredness is infuriating.
First off, maybe they're coming home and saying the same thing about you? I suppose it has never occurred to you that maybe your friends don't think you bring anything else to the table, conversation-wise? Why are you owed sparkling conversation, but you aren't required to have a topic to discuss? What are you doing about the lack of intellectually stimulating conversation besides griping about how it doesn't exist?
Second, as someone else mentioned upthread, these people work in high-pressure environments, ones that are geared for people afraid of risk, afraid of non-conformity, afraid of having to step outside a comfort zone. Finance, consulting... all of these are places where the expectation is that junior and mid-level people (analysts, associates, etc) keep their heads down, put their hours in, and work their way up the ladder. There is no percentage in it for anyone to have out-there opinions or beliefs. Sports, travel, local places to eat... these are inoffensive, neutral topics, the kinds of things that are so generic that they become an expected topic. I mean, sure, you might have a lot of knowledge about the Tokugawa Shogunate, but the odds are no one else will, and when you're in social circles with people you don't know super well, you want to stick to topics that everyone can participate in or be interested in. That's the safe play.
Third, during your PhD program you had a lot of people around you who were there studying much the same thing, or seeking intellectual growth... the social expectations there is that everyone does share what they're learning about, and because a PhD student is by definition one of the better educated people on that subject in the world, you probably get some interesting, in depth discussions. The understanding of what constitutes appropriate conversation changes when your social setting changes. In a literal school, academic topics will be more appropriate. When your shared environment is the workplace, then your work becomes the safe topic. When you're with people to whom your only relationship is the place you live, then your shared environment becomes the common conversational ground.
This can't be news to you, can it?
The lack of social skills on this forum these days is astounding.
Why don’t you bring up topics that you want to talk about
Because OP is a boring person as well, he's just a little more selfish and a little less introspective than most people and so assumes it's everyone else's responsibility to entertain him
Probably because these people who have high paying jobs who worked hard to get there probably worked so they can have a big house or get to have special experiences like beautiful destination vacations or buy their dream car because that’s something they are interested in
Because smart and financially successful doesnt equal interesting. In fact, it's anything but. If you are in consulting, finance, law then yes you are bright and ambitious/driven, but you are also likely very risk averse - you try to hedge any career risk through hardwork, networking, going to as good a school as possible, academic performance, etc.
So you are surprised when people that prioritize career in their lives above all else, including other interests, dont have much to talk about besides career and stupid stuff like food and drinks?
Part of this is being young as well. Those trendy gimmick major city bars and clubs are so cool and original when you are 22-25 years old. By the time you are 30+ you probably see them for the quick overpriced soulless cash grabs they are, realize it's a fad and that the bar likely wont even be there in 5 years, and instead opt for something more real and more salt of the earth
Lame af. Find more interesting friends.
Seriously, finance/law/consulting people are not monolith risk averse types always focused on optionality, or whatever the fuck is in vogue these days. There are enough interesting people out there, you just have to find them. Reality is interesting people gravitate towards other interesting people.
.
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Have you seen the average MBA class?
This also seems to be a generational thing sometimes. I have some older coworkers and they are a lot more interesting to talk to than coworkers closer to my age usually.
Sounds like these folks you are hanging out with need to move to Miami... there are plenty of people in NYC that don't engage in this type of surface-level, enti-cerebral type of chat. I sound kind of harsh, but these are type of folks you dont go back out to dinner with. Miami is full of em.
i think it's a function of working long hours for many years and spending time around people like that. you just mold to your environment wen you're in it for so long. sucks.
You’re simply like so many other users on this site, super smart and the top 1% of intellectuals.
You’re phd shows that you are above meaningless conversations about food and travel and luxury. Even the successful and rich of nyc can’t stimulate someone as varied as you.
Sadly, your only option is to quickly become that genius billionaire founder you’re meant to be and rub elbows with Elon and the true elite. Only then can you rise above the typical top 1% of nyc and join the top 0.1%!
lol
it is a symptom of money, I see it in my clientele, it's what is called medium range conversation, and it's a necessary skill to master because it's the only type of conversation that can occur in groups outside of family or the closest of friends
it would be wildly inappropriate for me to discuss a family member of mine that's dying and the ambivalence I feel about it combined with the dread I feel every time I go and visit my immediate family (you know that one relative you love but don't like? that's most of my family for me unfortunately). nor is it appropriate to go straight into solving the world's problems when what you say can have a direct negative impact on your financial wellbeing, just like it's inappropriate to bring up super duper deep stuff like the meaning of life, religion, and so on when your colleagues simply want to have a few drinks and blow off some steam. it's low risk to talk about the trip you just took to italy, it's high risk to talk about why bret weinstein's argument against the existence of God is wrong or how you think that your friends that all do hims should probably just stop watching porn or instagram (softcore)
so yeah, as boring as it is, have something to contribute, and then have a couple of friends from outside finance that you can go deeper with. for this reason more than others, the vast majority of my good conversations occur outside of the company of other finance professionals
Great explanation of friendly but not friends
I think this effect comes from the increasingly niche interests people have nowadays - especially when you have money. People go all in on full DJ sets, dressage, Kendo, cowboy action shooting, whatever. You need to be able to fall back on restaurants and going out because it’s such a universal thing in nyc. Every young guy who lives and works in Manhattan eats out and goes out all the time. Easy to talk about that, the game, or the weather. It’s small talk. Not likely that you meet more than one or two good friends who like the same things as you unless you met them doing that thing.
If your busy all the time and work becomes most of your life that's all there's left to talk about for a lot of people. People don't care about your personal problems or you don't want to share them either
Have you considered that these people hate their jobs, or at least, have grinded all through out high school, university, and worked 12+ hours a day for 50 weeks out of the year and don't want to talk about work in the few hours of social interaction they have per week?
I'll say this, once you get to upper middle class, i noticed a bunch of my friends and I enjoy more epicurean pursuits. And frankly this is somewhat natural. Since epicureanism is mostly the philosophy of materialism, having extra cash to burn would lend itself to aligning with these beliefs, if not practices.
Life is too short to drink cheap booze. So while you drink your $15 handle of vodka, I can drink my ~$80 bottle of Scotch and Tequila and savor the experience more so and in conjunction with the desired effect of alcohol. Same thing with food, on this I actually enjoy cooking and cook for my family, but i spend money on gadgets and lessons(masterclass), to be able to cook a a higher level than basic sustenance. Sure the gym pros eat grilled chicken, but I make a seared and oven roasted lemon chicken with garlic and thyme that is never dry and everyone things is amazing. And this is a basic example. People talk about restaurants and food because people have always gone to restaurants and food.
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