Your First Job Doesn't Define You
I've been reading so many posts recently from young people crying about not getting into IB immediately after graduating or not getting any IB internships and thinking their whole lives are ruined...
Let me tell you about myself.
I went to an elite target (H/S) and got multiple internship offers during my undergrad from prestigious banks. I used to be extremely arrogant and elitist and was that obnoxious finance guy in the friend group. I would make jokes about my friends who went to non-target schools and made fun of those who didn't get any offers. I used to be really pretentious and nasty to those I thought were below me.
I got a full time offer at GS/MS/JP in a 'less prestigious' division and was annoyed but took it and focused on switching over into PE. I remember clearly speaking to a friend who worked at a MM bank and told him he has no chance to get into PE since he's working at an inferior bank.
I felt like I was destined for success and entitled to an extremely successful career and looked down on those I deemed were beneath me.
A few years later, things are very different.
I was unsuccessful at moving over to PE and became extremely bitter and resentful at work. I felt that IB was only prestigious at the analyst level and when I failed to switch to PE I felt like I had wasted all my efforts. I became really apathetic at work and was confrontational and rude at work. I talked down on IB to my colleagues and kept expressing how frustrated I was at not transferring into PE. I felt even more annoyed since I wasn't even working in a prestigious group and stopped giving a fuck.
I ended up getting fired not long after becoming an associate.
I remember my friend from a complete non-target telling me about his MBA applications and I used to tell him 'MBAs are for losers who didn't get elite jobs the first time'. I thought I'd just do an MBA and try to get into PE after that because my 3 years at GS/MS/JP should put me above the other applicants from 'inferior backgrounds'. Turns out the GMAT isn't as easy as I thought and I didn't score that well even after preparing for a second attempt. I ended up getting rejected from all the business schools I applied to.
I applied for MM firms thinking they should be desperate to accept me with my elite BB analyst background. Didn't get any offers. Managed to get into some shitty boutique that specializes in my sector background which pays on the lower end. With recent cuts we have far too few in my group and it's essentially a sweatshop during some periods where the workload and hours are just unsustainable. There aren't any exit opps at the associate level so I'm looking to jump to corporate finance or something similar with lower hours. (Very ironic because I literally used to mock people who worked in corp finance as being IB failures).
I caught up with some friends recently and their trajectories were the polar opposite of mine:
- The friend who went to a complete non-target and was doing accounting at a Big 4 after graduating (which I mocked him for), ended up doing an MBA and is now working as an IB associate at a BB.
- My friend at the MM bank that I said would never get into PE managed to get into a great PE firm with good hours compared to how much he was previously working and will benefit massively from his carry.
- My friend who didn't even do finance/STEM and went to another non-target initially didn't even get a good job after graduating and took some random industry role at some no-name firm. I remember looking down on him and mocking him for not going to a target. He's now working at Boston Consulting Group.
When I told my friends what I'm doing now they were really shocked. Based on my initial trajectory of H/S and GS/MS/JP everyone thought I'd be a principal at Blackstone or KKR at this point. Even I did.
There seems to be this idea from young people on here that just because you achieved initial 'success' it will snowball and you are guaranteed to get constant success, and if you don't achieve that initial success you're destined for failure.
That's how I felt and it's just not true. My career is a reflection of that.
Your situation isn't fixed.
If you're in a shitty situation now - that can change.
If you're in a great situation now - that can change.
My attitude and arrogance cost me my career in the sense that I have severely 'underperformed' expectations for someone with my initial background of H/S and GS/MS/JP.
Neither failure nor success is permanent. Some of the most successful people in this industry have come from backgrounds I used to laugh at and look down on. Now they spend more on private jet travel than my yearly compensation.
If I could go back in time I would just appreciate what I had. Even though I didn't get into PE I still had an amazing job at GS/MS/JP. You don't know what you have until you've lost it.
Your life isn't ruined just because you didn't get an IB internship or didn't get into IB right after graduating. The most successful people I know have never even worked in IB or PE.
Your career isn't linear - things can change and things will change. You just need to ensure they change in a positive manner.
Thanks for the great post, am unsure why people MS'd you. If this is a troll, so be it, but hopefully you are satisfied with where you currently are / are making moves to get to where you want to be. Cheers!
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I’m well into my career and I can tell you that arrogance can and will kill careers.
The minute you think you’ve “made it” - that’s when you start slipping and not giving 100%. And guess what - there’s tons of people with the same level of talent giving 100% every day who will take your spot. If you don’t stay hungry - you will not succeed.
This can happen at any point in your career - even mine. But it is especially dangerous to start your career thinking you’ve “made it” bc of your “elite background “. It can only make people not like you and make you give less than 100% - both of those things will kill you.
Bravo to you for the post and for the introspection to realize all of this. Keep the hunger there and a good attitude and you’ll stay moving in a positive direction.
I’d also consider reapplying to mba programs. GMAT isn’t the end all be all - what probably killed you more was your bad attitude when you were younger- which will def come across in the essays - and lack of good work references. If you can improve those I’m sure you’d have a good shot at T15 mbas.
k
Guys sorry for stirring up so much tension with my words/ :(
What have you done?!>
I’d like to talk this random BCG guy who they apparently just hired off the street
Likely an operations consulting role relating to a certain industry that the hiree had expertise in, not that out of the question. Or IT/Data Science (BCG Gamma).
Noy every role at MBB is strategy/transformation/M&A/corp fin etc
I know someone who did something completely random like Software Engineering at Target get into MBB 2 yrs postgrad
It's fiction
Thank You
Agreed, but you have to put out in your first job. You can't just slack off and expect excellence in the next gig.
This is really good advice. Doubly so when one realizes that, even the mundane and innocuous seeming things about how to act in and around your colleagues helps you secure a better station for yourself in the future. Even in this world, where people treat each other like the stocks they short, what truly matters is experience and the connections you make.
Powerful message man. Congrats. A great reminder to always be humble.
Fwiw my first job was retail banking. Followed my girlfriend - who I was convinced was the one - and took whatever job I could get.
Was in a pretty scary place once I came to my senses because I had always had these big finance career dreams of working all over the world and making big money doing interesting things, and instead I was signing off on mortgage applications in some town not far from where I grew up. For a while I really felt trapped, but thank God I was in my early 20s and still had plenty of time to start over.
How old were you when you restarted and how did you do it?
I went travelling for six months to a year, came back, got an OK job on the sell side at the age of 25. Managed to transfer to a much more interesting division 1 year later (moved both coverage and geography with basically 1 year experience, pretty wild in retrospect), spent a few years doing that, moved to a fairly no-name buyside shop, spent a few years doing that, then managed to land a gig at a T1 hedge fund. Had a huge amount of luck, no doubt about it, but I definitely think it's possible for anyone who's determined enough.
BUMP
I feel like everyone on WSO needs to read your post !
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Maybe this post was written for ppl like you lol
Thank you so much for this post.
Enjoyed your story and props to you for being so introspective and dropping the ego to admit your shortcomings.
A career is long and with the amount of opportunities available nowadays, there are so many more ways to make a comfortable living than just trodding down the “path”. There are less privileged people out there who kill it since they are less concerned with status and prestige and instead are resourceful and will work hard to achieve their goals. In other words, they are scrappy and focused on what they need to do, not on other people’s perceptions of what they should do.
Also appreciate the message on being grateful for what you have. Understand what matters most to you and craft the life you want to live. You’ll find that it really doesn’t take much to lead a fulfilling life once the basic needs are taken care of.
All the best to those fighting hard during recruitment, I’ve been there but at the end of the day, just make the best of what you have and things will turn out fine.
Great post! I would go even further and say while a job is a significant part of our lives it doesn't define our entire worth. As others have said, do a good job, treat people with respect, and don’t forget those that are truly important - those will be remembered. So much of making it in this industry is timing and luck - many of the decisions are made on the margin.
a mentor of mine came from a rural town, was a special needs student, had abusive parents, and a broken family life. he went to community college, worked hard, and transferred to a target school, where he was able to graduate with 0 loans bc of need based finaid. worked hard there and placed well, but then he hit roadblocks. for example, he worked hard to place SA at a EB/BB, but did not get the FT offer from his junior yr SA IB firm, and had to start elsewhere after college before lateralling to an EB. going from IB --> PE, he did not place where he wanted and took some time off to reflect, before trying again and placing at a UMM PE firm. he's now looking to go to a SM HF (Tiger Cub/Baupost/Activist/etc.), and the man's resilience and character are absolutely admirable and god level traits. honestly, I think it's people like him who will go on to do great things in life and be there to help others in need when they face similar struggles. have an insane amount of respect for said person.
ik for a fact that he suffers from severe ptsd (to be real, no one walks away from that kind of shitty ass upbringing and becomes a "normal person" by wall street standards), but he counters it by getting involved in and donating to NYC organizations that try to solve child abuse and poverty issues. even with his demanding work schedule and many roadblocks he faced, he still powers through them like the terminator and makes time to get involved in things that matter to him. this guy is my superhero and i seriously hope he runs wall street one day.
none of the above would have been possible if he didn't work as hard as he did, and even when he did not get the FT offer from his junior yr IB shop, he still persevered to start elsewhere and lateral somewhere better. he does often joke that at his junior yr EB/BB, he was a bottom bucket intern who made many careless mistakes, but never let any of it get to his head or heart.
p.s., he is getting married soon, and i seriously envy anyone fortunate enough to call someone like him their dad.
"If you're in a shitty situation now - that can change.
If you're in a great situation now - that can change.
Neither failure nor success is permanent."
***
Thank you for this. Doesn't help that "Love Yourz" by J. Cole is playing on my speaker right now either.
Onwards.
First job very much defines 95% of people and informs the trajectory of the rest of their career. I also fall into the minority of people where that wasn't the case, but it's disingenuous to suggest otherwise with anecdotes.
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As I already said, it doesn't HAVE to define the trajectory of your career (it certainly hasn't for me), but for the vast majority of people, it does. It's better to make your first job a consequential and well-paid one than try to fight against the odds and dig out of the hole after the fact.
"First job very much defines 95% of people and informs the trajectory of the rest of their career. I also fall into the minority of people where that wasn't the case, but it's disingenuous to suggest otherwise with anecdotes."
(1) How much of "First job very much defines 95% of people and informs the trajectory of the rest of their career" do you believe is due to the individual person and how much of that do you believe is due to the inherent uncertainty that exists in careers?
(2) And once you answer 1, what is the evidence you used to come to that claim.
"I've been reading so many posts recently from young people crying about not getting into IB immediately after graduating or not getting any IB internships and thinking their whole lives are ruined."
This is where a little understanding of the industry comes into play. We can literally just look at BB CEOs in recent history. Blankfein was a lawyer turned J. Aron trader who lucked into a career at GS. Gorman was a lawyer-turned-consultant who became Merrill Lynch's Chief Marketing Officer. Moynihan was an in-house lawyer turned financial advisor. Bonderman was literally appearing before the Supreme Court before becoming COO of Bass's investment entity before co-founding TPG. David Rubenstein was a lawyer and a government employee before co-founding Carlyle.
I can keep going, but I am just working off the top of my head. Your first job, your second job, even your third job isn't even necessarily what will define your career.
This is a really powerful wake-up call. It shows that initial success doesn’t guarantee long-term success, and arrogance can ruin what could have been a great career. It’s a humbling reminder that we should never look down on others or take our positions for granted. Careers can take unexpected turns, and it’s all about staying grounded, appreciating what you have, and adapting to change.
Have logged off WSO for some time but clicked in here just to see a gem of a post. Hope the kids see this - your first job will NOT be your last job, you're in it for the long run. If you've even had an inkling of an idea that your career is a marathon, not a sprint, you'd realize how silly the desperate hive-mind is. What makes it even more ironic is that we in the literal business of generating returns should know better than anyone else that it's long-term compounded returns that matter, not short-term high returns here and there.
have seen different ... some people's first job is their last job.
Well, true. Shout-out to Nike's new CEO
It's never too late to re-invent yourself.
Ikr!! To think giveadvicepls could re-invent himself & actually put forward a helpful & wholesome troll post—Cessationist christians are clearly wrong about miracles
Take this with a grain of salt because I'm not the least bit prestige-focused (I'm of the attitude that each paycheck is a blessing), but if you're:
1) Geographically flexible
2) Open-minded
3) Willing to grind
There are some great "off the beaten path" finance careers and trajectories out there that are extremely rewarding - both financially and professionally. I find that those with the "MF PE/ HF / MBB or bust" mentality end up underachieving according to their standards because they lock on to these "up or out" industries or careers with very few slots - even fewer at the very top - and can't effectively pivot once shyt goes sideways. By design only an infinitely small number will ever get those brass rings. There will always be people smarter, harder-working, better-connected than you in the pipeline, which is why it's so important that you're willing to cast a wide net into other areas of finance, go downstream, etc. if needed.
One of my friends just started a C-level role a couple of months back and he's barely 40. When you look at his resume, it's a mish mash of gigs that most WSOers wouldn't want - his last gig was VP at some $300M EBITDA company in west bumfuck that does aluminium siding and shyt, which is precisely what made him so valuable given he helped grow it from a $50M EBITDA business.
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