Howdy, friends. Hope you are enjoying this Wednesday.
This is a question I've wanted to pose for some time now, especially on this forum. While I can think of personal anecdotes that may answer this query, I know for a fact that the way I think may not be representative of how the world does. Times consistently evolve, and I would like to use this little laydown opportunity to seek some advice from those who would certainly LIKE to provide some 'input' (or a few left hooks?) to their boss(es), albeit can't since they like their job.
When I was younger (and significantly dumber!), I can remember the dozens of horror-story-VPs I encountered. The stupid decisions made, the personal drama exhibited to me, the seemingly menial and endless work directed my way... all the above. When I was young, I can remember confidently declaring to myself that I would never be that person, that I would never raise my voice, and never offend the people who worked below me.
Well, obviously, it's not realistic. The more I grew within the industry, the more I realized some decisions that seemed so vastly unfair at the time were really just tough decisions made by those with more experience than me, those who had access to more data than me, and those who viewed the scope of work in a way that I couldn't - I didn't know to look for the reasoning.
Now, there's that. But throughout my tenure, whether it be working as an analyst, associate, or whatever - I've faced plenty of encounters with my direct superiors that just weren't right. I've been on the receiving end of harsh insults driven by personal dissatisfaction, petty gatekeeping based on inherent biases, and a whole lot of other shit that I objectively didn't deserve - as I know ALL of you have. I've spent nights fuming as I typed at my desk to fix others' mistakes. I've spent nights cursing out my VP/MDs name under my breath, wondering why I'd been sidelined from something I did correctly. I've worked for some really great people and some really fucking terrible people. My immediate goal now is to fall into the former category.
So, what would you like to see in a newly-minted external VP?
The long and the short of my personal situation is this - I moved across the country last month after accepting a VP position at a UMM/MF, previously coming from an AVP role at an MF. While they both sit pretty on assets, if you put the two firms head-to-head numbers-wise, my former shop would easily win. However, this opportunity allows me to operate more to my liking, controlling personnel, structure, and workflow allocation in a way that I see fit. I have a unique opportunity here to influence the disposition of those on my team, and I want to do everything I reasonably can to ensure my people succeed.
Obviously, as the start date creeps near, I've begun to develop some nerves. I believe I am a 'people person' and have always felt I'd be a successful leader, albeit the ever-complex notion of EFFECTIVELY managing a group of individuals is daunting. I can run models and strategize numbers all day, I can improve our net clawback while distributing our lean returns in my sleep, but figuring out how to tap into that human element of the game is tough. I realize now that this will be quite the challenge for me, and honestly just want to do right by my people.
Well, this is certainly getting to be a wall of text, isn't it? If you're still here, I appreciate you reading this far. This community is an enormous blend of smart and reasonable people who have cumulatively accused thousands of years of knowledge within the industry. It's simultaneously filled with people who don't like the way the game is played, don't like the decisions made by their superiors, and want a more cohesive environment to work in. I'll still have plenty of oversight by my MDs and fellow VPs, and fully understand that I can't change the world from my desk. But you can't make anything happen unless you try, and the first step in trying is starting somewhere.
I'm not a self-made individual, I don't think a lot of us are, really. I've gotten lucky with connections, friends, or mentors who've boosted me up. I would have never had the opportunity to accept this position had it not been for the kindness and perseverance of others, so my only wish is to do the same for those who report directly to me. I've been informed that I'll be responsible for the direct oversight of nearly twenty people. If I can make twenty people just a little more content with their WLB, satisfied with their leadership, or maybe just less miserable with their day-to-day, then I'll be a better man for doing so.
Thanks for listening. Would love to hear your suggestions. Cheers, folks.
Just my 2 cents here - a few words of empathy when needed, bit of understanding at a critical moment, an effective cushion (in not passing all the pressure) below the partner/MD, efficient manager of timelines and deliverable quality (and expectations), may be a lending hand here and there when you have the time (show that you can do it faster and better than your juniors), a few non condescending lessons - not see the sweat while doing all the above
Ghosh, That's definitely a lot to ask
All this assuming the ana and aso are normal, reasonable ppl. Doesn't apply to so many entitled assholes (yes some juniors can be even worse than MDs in a bit of immature way)
Good luck dude
Excellent response, I really want to thank you for your input. The only downside I can see is the notion of that being "a lot to ask" - doesn't seem like it on a human level. Maybe we can change that!
I want to specifically touch on your 'effective cushion' point, as that was more-or-less one of the number one points I had gathered as my day-one plan. I'm not sure how your office space is set up - since you're in coverage, I could assume primarily trading-floor style where the MD is at the end of the desk. At my last shop, wasn't like that - the analyst bullpen filled the center of the room, and associates usually got nicer bullpen desks or could get lucky and get a co-office with another ASO or something. The VPs had their own space, but... they were present. By 'present', I mean that they could look out of that office and see the majority of people on their team, they could walk three steps and talk to someone directly.
The MDs & principals - not so much. To see one of them you had to go up two floors or shoot a note. It's primarily team-specific, but you could see the lack of instantaneous communication; with that comes the lack of cohesion. Something as simple as being physically accessible, just the presence of someone being there is huge. I can't tell you how many times I walked by a VP's office and said "hey boss, what do you think of x?" which would instantly form a greater discussion. Just bouncing general game plans and/or ideas off of someone there is so largely beneficial to a progressive relationship, it's wild.
The ONLY reason I bring this up comes back to your effective cushion point. By virtue of being disconnected, MD X knows ASO X a whole lot less. They don't see each other as often, and they don't have as much open conversation, so problems arise easier. If ASO X fucks something up in MD X's eyes, there's a lack of context that explains the rationale behind said decision. So, what might MD X do? Maybe s/he picks up the phone and dials VP X, who gets a lecture about management. The VP is now involved and can choose to tackle the situation two ways, depending on different elements:
This isn't all to say connecting spaces of people together physically is the answer, but I think it's something I'd like to try. The example above is one of many I've witnessed in my tenure and provides me with precedent that working CLOSE to your people in all aspects - physical, mental, emotional, whatever - is one of the largest factors that determine their work output, a direct result of their happiness level. I know for a fact I've been offered a 'corner office' which is great... but it better be within walking or 'popping-in' distance, that's all I'll say.
Thanks again for the comment. Cheers.
Physical proximity is a good point but I think the larger expectation is for the VP to be on this path to be a personality who - how shall I put this - be a quick judge of character (of juniors) and adapt a style to each of their needs - whatever the situation - much like how Partners deal with bratty rich kids on fundraising or an arrogant but successful ceo
People come in all shapes and forms - if you can't manage the bullpen don't expect to tame a bull of a client…
Sorry if it's condescending, it's too late and am repeating something a drunk MD once told me
Wow. Reading this, what stands out to me is that you actually care and show a lot of emotional/social awareness.
I’m wayyyy too inexperienced to offer valuable insight but you sound like a great guy and someone I’d like to work for.
Your future employees will be lucky.
Man, can I work for you…in all seriousness, the fact you made this post is a great sign that you want to be an effective leader both up the chain and down the chain. In terms of juniors (Associates, Analysts), I think the biggest thing is to just remember that everyone is different and to treat everyone fairly (not the same). People’s experiences, backgrounds, personalities, etc are different so while some Associates may respond better to harsher treatment, others may just need more hand holding, etc. Juniors (at least me anyway) want their VPs to be invested in them, be there for guidance when needed, offer to be a mentor, help chip in when it’s a fire drill etc. What would probably turn a junior off (this is just me speculating) is likely treating them as inferior / subordinate only, not valuing their input, micro managing (unless absolutely needed), etc. Junior life is rough as is (same with VP life) so just having a strong relationship with each other and knowing you’re both there for each other during tough times probably helps get through the long hours. I say this as someone who has not had that so perhaps just pure conjecture on my end.
You being as considerate and caring, is honestly the best thing to do. Show that to your people and they’ll love you for it.
One thing I’ll tell you though: stay that way. I think many a VP (or manager of anything really) starts out like that. But we all lose our way, and maybe care less at some point.
Honestly just remember this feeling right now, and stick to it. Don’t forget your principles, but stick to them.
Also, kindness.
Edit: tell people WHY we need something done, they will do it with 3x the motivation and quality of you can show them why the small things matter
Please listen to the 2nd year analysts / A2A associates who explain MD preferences, they have already been through certain pain points and can help navigate some senior tendencies like blannk MD prefers AVPs over football fields so it will 100% get deleted if we do a FF...
These 20 people report directly to you / you decide what they do and work with them day to day? It sounds pretty strange. Most senior partners don’t have 20 people working for them
We’ve hired quite a few people externally on the VP level. Some thoughts (which you may or may not like):
1) People will assume you were pushed out of your old firm and won’t really rate you to start with if you came from a better firm. If you came from a worse firm they’ll think your experience isn’t quality. No way to win, need to earn your stripes
2) figure out the politics and strong performers. Plenty of senior associates who are technically below you will have the ear of the people you report into yourself and can color their perception of you very quickly. Better stay on the good side of those
3) You’re only marginally more senior than the senior associates and in my firm VPs are still considered quite junior. I think despite the above message coming from a good place, it very much has a ‘I’m no longer part of the juniors’ vibe, but most people will think you are (and in most firms you probably still are - although as noted the 20 people reporting into you is pretty confusing so unclear how that works)
The above is pretty direct but just alerting you on the flip side of the coin from someone who has seen quite a few external VPs and Directors fail
Et harum eum minus omnis ut sunt. Voluptates reiciendis eos saepe officia. Harum aliquid est quisquam odit neque. Ut nobis mollitia commodi distinctio consectetur.
Omnis corrupti dolores dolorum eos dolorem sed enim. Nihil saepe porro alias rerum aut ea voluptatem. Exercitationem omnis cumque sed quidem. Consectetur rerum natus in fugit numquam earum officiis.
Minus minima aliquid voluptatibus dolorem. Ab repellendus voluptatum et ratione quia ullam ducimus. In magni inventore officia rerum dolorem magnam pariatur sed.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...