If given the overall option, which one would you take? Both are known to have intense cultures and pay is top notch but curious to hear what this forum would take if given the rare opportunity to choose
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They’re pretty different places. I haven’t worked at either but my impression is that while both are incredibly grindy, the people at H&F are at least cordial / generally pleasant while Apollo is much more abrasive. They also take very different approaches to underwriting. H&F will only buy absolutely pristine, bulletproof assets at correspondingly high prices while Apollo is well known for its deep value approach and is willing to dive into much hairier or even distressed companies. Both can be pretty flexible and creative with deal structures but I think Apollo gets the edge there.
Odds of getting offers at both are slim to none but I'll take H&F. I like their investment approach more (paying big prices for good assets vs. a much more value-oriented approach at Apollo).
Edit: Couldn't see the comment above before I posted but that's a pretty good summary.
I'm in consulting, not PE. But in the vein of consultants existing to give PE guys a neutral third party viewpoint... the Apollo guys I have come across (doing commercial diligences for) have been almost universally been miserable. The H&F ones seemed to have more normal morale levels.
Both sets of guys are really smart, though.
Worked for some H&F guys when I was back in consulting. We grinded for them and they were super appreciative, actually said things like, "without your team we wouldnt have been able to complete our acquisition in such a efficient manner". While we did work a ton of OT for them and burn the candle at both ends, they were appreciative and smart enough to realize how much we were doing for them (not often the case with sponsor deals).
I don't have any data points on Apollo but if you scroll google search "WSO" and "Apollo" you will find plenty of horror stories. Here is the link to my personal favorite. I knew a girl who went to work at Apollo, I believe she lasted 3 months? I remember seeing her going there and thinking to myself, "no way she survives a full year".
It could be that many of the H&F folks previously worked in consulting. Agreed, that Apollo story is ruthless
I fail to see why anyone would want to join Apollo versus another MF PE. Everyone who encounters them notices how abysmal they look and obviously tired they are. This may be true at KKR/BX/H&F but you don't hear with as much consistency that they are also mean seniors.
Its getting to the point where I feel no sympathy for the folks at Apollo because it was abundantly clear before joining what the firm would be like.
Agreed, but it could be because of their small class size, decent chance of promotion without B-School, and most importantly, their returns of ~40% since inception for their PE fund which is insane
Fair enough, but it should be noted that there is a decent chance of promotion precisely because so few people last...
Apollo returns, especially in more recent vintages, can't hold a candle to H&F. 40% since inception is likely a return they use for marketing...
H&F will presumably IPO towards the top of the next cycle so now seems like a good time to join. Too much of the APO economics are owned by the public market and the stock will trade sideways for ever now it's a balance sheet insurer.
Even if top of next cycle is in a decade how is that good for an A1 joining now? You need go shares. Probably for the current principals and partners who’ll have amassed a ton of gp shares by then
It's a fair point - I have no idea how H&F specifically does this. The private GPs vary widely in how "socialist" they are with the top-level GP economics versus the carry in each fund.
Pure play PE firms make horrible public companies, which is why you don’t see any.
Both places have premier reputation as a place to work your first few years after banking, but candidly there’s a perception on the street of not wanting to hire a career apollo guy because they’re usually not going to be a good cultural fit anywhere other than Cerberus Capital and Miramax Films.
H&F is probably a much more transferable skill set and more conducive to learning/developing.
H&F all day long. Comp is close enough to not have any desire to deal with the culture at Apollo.
even at the higher levels?
Making career choices based on what people at the highest levels of an org make is stupid because all stats would point to you most likely never making it that far. H&F is a top performing fund, they've minted multiple billionaires, and only continue to grow as time goes on. You get to work on what are in my opinion more interesting deals - acquiring high quality assets for high prices vs down & dirty value/distressed processes like at Apollo - and you don't have the political stigma that comes from telling non-finance people you work at a firm that's been in the news because its founder was accused of raping women at Epstein's NYC mansion and may or may not have diddled kids on his island. Add in the massive culture difference and comparable comp, I still say it's a no-brainer (for myself anyways).
I’ve heard that H&F can be a challenging place to get actual deal experience. Because they invest in only the best businesses and are so picky, some associates finish the 2 year stint without a single completed transaction.
Doesn't matter if you don't close anything, you will be running deep diligence into multiple top quality companies they are looking at and that's deal experience you can speak to even if you don't close. If you are leaving H&F with a good rep internally you will not have trouble getting interviews anywhere regardless of whether you closed anything or not.
You know it's a 2 year and out program right? HF is sick for partners but not as much for associates because odds are you'll never make partner.
One of my best friends from my analyst program went there, had a great exit into HBS but he told me one person in a class of fifteen gets promoted. Tough because NY is narrow/uninteresting industries and SF is in SF. Pick your poison I guess...
"one person in a class of fifteen gets promoted" wow...
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