Crossroads in Career
I’m currently at a crossroads in my life and career and would appreciate any feedback anyone would be willing to offer.
Background:
Non-Target UG
Semi Target Specialty Masters (think Vandy/Georgetown/Duke/Emory)
IB Internships in Lev Fin during UG (MM and BB)
Y1: Implementation Consulting (@ Unsexy Fortune 100 Tech Company)
Y2-Y3: Credit Analyst on the investment team at a small SM HF ($250-500M AUM)
Y4: Grad School
Y5 (Current Role): Distressed Credit Analyst on the investment team at a large fund (PIMCO/WAMCO/Sixth St)
Reflection on Career:
I’m finally in a solid seat on the buy side at a name-brand firm in a location that I like after grinding for the last 4 years and struggling to break into the industry. Throughout those 4 years making it to where I am today seemed an eternity away at times so when I got the offer I was incredibly happy.
I’ve been in my current seat for a little under a year now and while I’ve learned a lot I’m questioning the long-term fit of the role and whether or not I see myself on the buy side for the duration of my career. My time here has confirmed that my analytical skills and how I approach problems are consistent with people who are successful investors who have a long track record of performance (top decile).
While it’s been a great experience and I’ve learned a lot I’m not feeling fulfilled in the role. At the end of the day lot of the analysis, we’re doing is not that intellectually stimulating and fairly straightforward. Culturally, I would describe the firm I’m at as abrasive and fairly toxic which is also driving some of my apprehension as I’m not convinced most other firms will have materially better cultures. Further on the topic of culture, a lot of the people I work with are hardo’s and have no personality or hobbies outside of work and just live to work which is also driving my dissatisfaction.
The hours are manageable at an average of 60-65 hours a week with minimal weekend work which is a plus. Ideally, though I think I’m looking for something with a little more balance that is more of a blend lifestyle-wise between my implementation consulting job at the tech company (way too chill) and my current seat (very intense) at an organization with a better culture.
In an ideal world, my dream job would be similar to that of a serial entrepreneur/investor. I’d want to invest my own money into a variety of businesses agnostic to specific industries to learn more about the world around me while making money in the process and reinvesting proceeds into other businesses. My biggest struggle with this is that I don’t believe that there isn’t a path to doing this without first becoming independently wealthy.
Strengths:
Relationship Building
Credit and Overall Market Knowledge
Selling
Persistence and Work Ethic
Weaknesses:
Excel (I’m good enough to get by but work with former top bucket IB analysts and would consider myself below average in comparison to them in terms of efficiency)
Mindset (Not fixating on the negativity of my work environment and letting that impact me outside of work)
Anxious Thoughts (Worrying about what I can control and overcoming the negativity surrounding me at work)
Paths I’m Considering:
Credit Trading, REPE (work seems more entrepreneurial than current seat), Commercial Banking (as loan officer or relationship manager), Product Management or Strategy at a Gaming Company (think Bet MGM, Draftkings, Fanduel, etc.), Credit Sales, and PWM
Deleted
PM’d
Happy to chat directly. Please PM me. Thanks.
PM’d
Genuine questions:
How did you confirm that your analytical skills and approach to problems are consistent with top decile investors after only under a year?
How would that skill set match your dream job of being a serial entrepreneur/angel? I always view there is a big difference between public (especially credit) vs seed/series A investing
Would appreciate your thoughts on those!
I should have been more clear in my point in the original post. I’m not trying to assert that I’m as knowledgeable as my PM or someone with 5-10 years of experience after 1 year on that job as that would be absurd.
What I was ultimately trying to communicate was that I was thrown into the fire in my current role and have been able to swim despite challenging circumstances. I’m the only analyst on my team and am working for the two most senior PM’s at my firm. The three of us share the responsibility of covering upwards of 200 credits in our sector. The experience has offered great exposure to senior people at the firm and has allowed me to see how they evaluate businesses and pitch credits to our investment committee.
Given how lean our team is I end up doing a lot of the legwork on their ideas and get to pitch them whether or not an idea is worth our time through a preliminary screening. After doing this for a while I was able to gain more responsibility from my PM’s and have been able to take ownership of a few dozen credits, which is very atypical for someone as junior as I am. Most people 2-3 years my senior don’t have as much responsibility as I’ve gotten within my first year on the job as a frame of reference.
I’ve interpreted this as a sign that I’m capable of performing at a high level at a firm with a strong track record and that should I continue along this path that I can be successful in the industry if that’s what I want. Obviously, I’m still very young in my career and still have a lot to learn so my interpretation based on my first year on the job is by no means gospel.
I’m obviously biased but I think that having a foundation in credit is incredibly valuable as an investor. Anybody can understand the upside of something but being able to forecast and understand downside risk is a skill that I believe fewer people have and truly understand.
I believe that my credit background would aid me as a serial entrepreneur/investor by allowing me to utilize my understanding of downside risk, capital allocation, and leverage to scale a business. Compared to your average small and medium sized business owners I believe that I would have an edge in these areas which would allow me to grow faster than them provided that I’m successful running the day to day operations.
For that reason I’m more interested in businesses that I could roll up initially rather than seed/series A investments. Eventually, I would like to make series A/seed investments to drive innovation as a hobby, however see the universe in which I’m most successful as an investor being in industries that are less sexy. Unlike a lot of people on this forum I’d be ecstatic if I were able to have a handful of HVAC businesses in a tier 2/3 city doing $20-50M in revenue annually.
Would have said something useful but Quaneaser captured it much more eloquently below. Appreciate the writeup and glad this thread got bumped up lol
Why don't you start a fintech credit related business if your goal is to be an entrepreneur?
I haven’t really thought too deeply about starting a fintech credit related business.
That’s something I’ll definitely ruminate on though to see if there are any needs that I’m able to identify that could lead to potentially building a business. I’ve always thought that fintech in its current iteration more broadly is saturated but will have to do more work on credit solutions specifically that are currently available.
Become PM and hire like minded analysts? Many dry lawyers and ex-IB in distress / private credit so potentially worth pivoting to a more creative investment field... Maybe too late for VC given macro though but HY Corp potentially.
I’m realistically another 10 years away from becoming a PM and am not sure that I want to stick it out that long in order to create a culture that doesn’t suck.
I’ve thought about pivoting to HY, but after working with some of the guys in that group at my firm their culture is nearly identical to ours.
What I’m struggling with and trying to figure out is that if I leave my current shop within the next 12-18 months will the next place be materially different or better. Based on my experiences to this point in the industry I’m guessing it would not be, which is why I’m strongly contemplating a career change.
Right now, I’m effectively an emotional punching bag for my seniors and am tired of having to push back in order to avoid getting steamrolled by them in certain cases. The idea of spending the next 3-5 years of working for people like this is not appealing.
I should also add that I consider myself to be a fairly aggressive person where appropriate and know how to toe the line if need be, but the guys I’m working for are just a**holes because they can be which I hate.
Sounds like PIMCO which is known to have a particularly rough culture
Happy to chat if you want to PM. Don't have similar culture issues at current firm but have undergone some thinking on the broader credit HF vs. roll-up independent entrepreneurship vs. switching strategy topic.
PM’d
Careful of overstating your experience level - for all intents and purposes you are a first year MBA equivalent. No offense to them, but all the first year MBAs I know and work with think of themselves exactly the same way (and trust me not all of them back it up). It sounds like you are doing well so far but you have a lot a to learn and therein lies the reason why PMs have 10-15+ years of experience (normally more). No smart money (i.e. instutional) is giving money to someone without that level of experience. Credit investing is good experience but you said you three cover 200 names - that is very different than developing an equity story and growth plan (three people could do that with maybe like 5 companies max) which is more relevant to what you'd need as a serial investor in non-series companies.
That said if you want to do acquisition entrepreunuership then there are generally two things you need, 1) money and 2) you need to just do it. If you want to roll up car washes then none of the jobs you mentioned are likely to get you experience doing that so at some point you need to just dive in and learn. Do your diligence, get a highly leveraged SBA loan, and start with a single business or two - then buy more over time. Suggest you read 'Buy Then Build' as a starting point for getting into this.
Agree with everything that you said and will keep that in mind. I wasn’t trying to give off the impression that I don’t have a lot to learn because I absolutely do before I can deliver as much values as my PM’s.
My commentary above were meant more to reiterate that based on my experiences and the mild amount of success I’ve had on the job that I’m confident if I stay the course that I can move up the learning to curve to meaningfully bridge the gap between where I am today and where my PM’s are. Obviously, as the last few years have proved that a lot can happen in a short amount of time so I don’t want to get too far ahead of myself especially with it looking like we’re in for a tough couple of years ahead of us heading into 2023.
Really appreciate your feedback and the book recommendation.
While it's been a great experience and I've learned a lot I'm not feeling fulfilled in the role. At the end of the day lot of the analysis, we're doing is not that intellectually stimulating and fairly straightforward. Culturally, I would describe the firm I'm at as abrasive and fairly toxic which is also driving some of my apprehension as I'm not convinced most other firms will have materially better cultures. Further on the topic of culture, a lot of the people I work with are hardo's and have no personality or hobbies outside of work and just live to work which is also driving my dissatisfaction.
Feel free to DM. I was in a nearly identical situation plus circuitous path to breaking in like you. I have left a job like the one you described and feel free as a bird. There are so many paths open to you. Once you get off the track if you feel it’s not for you, the process of simply getting off the track is life changing. Happy to elaborate more in PM.
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