Delayed promotion, what to do
Monkeys, can use some advice here. I joined a UMM fund last year as Associate 2 after 2 years growth PE, MBA and 4 years of corp fin experience. I tried to negotiate hard for SA but was told that this is it. I took the offer with the understanding that I'll be up for SA promotion the next cycle (1.5 years from joining in effect). I got top quartile rating bonus and rating in April. Fast forward to now, my manager has told me that I should be "open to spending more time as an Associate since he wants me to be ready when I get there". Mind you, this is 9 months out from when I will take that role on so I'm a bit stumped as to why they don't want to invest in me getting there. Backdrop is ofc that market has been slow and we haven't done a new deal since last year (though new fund is 30%+ invested, general track record of fund is pretty good). My sense is because they overhired last year and either want to push people out or delay promotions to manage the comp base. I absolutely do not want to be an associate for 4 fucking years. Have any of you faced a similar situation? Does it make sense to try and fight this out or just lateral quietly? For lateraling, is there a chance I will get a SA role anyways? Any inputs welcome.
If you lateral it will look like you're not up for SA, and you will likely end up well down-market. You can certainly shop around but you'd have to be willing to move to MM or LMM.
I would push a bit more... don't be overly aggressive but have a meeting with your manager that you were verbally told you'd be up in 1.5 years, there's still 9 months until the promotion cycle so you're willing to push hard to be ready but do not want to wait another cycle. Maybe go in with a short list of goals that you feel you can work towards for the SA promote and ask manager for input.
It's a tough situation, they know it's a tough market and want to manage expenses as best they can, so there may just be no room for a promote - but I wouldn't just accept it on its face either.
Yeah will definitely speak to manager about it and sort of make it clear that I'm putting my best foot forward anyways. Just very disappointed as I actually quite like the place otherwise and moving is always a pain
I had something similar happen. It really sucks. At a certain point though, if you don't have leverage and don't want to leave, you don't really have a move. I agree with the other poster that you should nudge. But if the answer is that you just have to deal with it, it's up to you if that makes you mad enough to try and lateral. Otherwise I don't know what else you can do. The bright side is that none of this will matter in the long run and while you are the one without leverage in this situation, in the future that role may be reversed.
Did you feel you suffered later in your career after taking the blow first time around? I also feel that if I swallow this now, maybe they will do the same thing when time comes for VP promote. All these "just one year delays" add up I feel.
You can always go elsewhere
No shit Sherlock. Back to the IB forum please
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I understand your frustration. I was an analyst for 4 years (2 years in corporate banking, 2 years in IB).You could try to work it out with your team as guy above said. But man, I would really consider looking elsewhere if you think you’re at a group that doesn’t want to see you make progress… believe it or not, it may be less of a reflection of you than you think
I'm seriously considering it but also wary that it would be quite hard to find a role where they take me as an SA given the market
Some firms just promote very slowly and it’s up to you to determine if you want to stay in these types of places.
A close friend of mine worked at a European investment manager, long hours, constant work with little downtime, and realized everyone took 4-6 years to get promoted to the next role. There were trade offs though: good pay and stability, people typically stayed for as long as they wanted to, they just had to spend a few extra years to move up each time.
Even after you move up, it could be worth considering how long people typically spend before they get the next promotion. How many years will it take to get to the role you want to be in?
How many years will it take to get there on another platform? Is the time difference worth changing firms for?
This is a good point you make. Sometimes the grass actually just is greener elsewhere and deep down you probably already know that.
Sometimes stuff just comes down to stuff that has nothing to do with you or your innate ability and competence.
Its so strange because theoretically, I know that's true but sort of did not expect to suffer from this BS at such a junior level. Should atleast rake in some VP level carry before being screwed sideways, at which level you can just blame it on mid-life crisis
Dang sorry you went to a firm that views you that way.
Look elsewhere man, there’s definitely other places that would take you more seriously.
just lateral bro. i'm in the same exact spot as you are.
~6 years of experience, was supposed to get promoted to Senior Associate/AVP, but since this year is so shit, they just went quiet on the promotion. i reached out to my head of IB more than 3 times on this and yeah, no meaningful response.
Will be aiming to lateral. For me, momentum is important.
Yeah definitely lateral man. This place doesn’t sound like it’s going to be a good fit for most people
what difference does one year make? also, will the comp be that much bigger? you're getting paid top bucket bonus, who cares if they call you SA or A. would it be better if they gave you a promotion and paid you less (smaller bonus explained by bad economic conditions - a lot of top banks paid laughably small bonuses this year)?
btw you're coming from corp fin. in corp fin people sit for like 10 years without promotions and you're getting angsty because of 1 year.
It seems that they could be developing a trend here - delaying you from A to SA, then from SA to VP, then from VP to P. I would push but consider other options, even going down the market to MM or LMM.
Yes, that's exactly my worry. And once I get too comfortable / rake up meaningful carry, it might be harder to leave. Think I'll selectively look for SA positions this year, which are rare. If I don't find one, probably next cycle is good to jump ship.
Understood. I’ve been in the situation a few years ago. I made a decision to stay for personal reasons and wished I didn’t, granted grass is always greener on the other side.
I was an associate for four years. This isn’t a sprint it’s a very long race. Believe me, getting a seat where you can thrive is more important than your promotion timeline. If you like the strategy and think you are learning and growing in your career grab your ankles and deal with it.
You could always just wait it out and lateral once you “finally” get promoted. Then you would have the progress on the resume and not have to go back to square one at another shop. In the meantime you could just do your job (and nothing more) and spend time working on yourself and building outside hobbies etc. Have you considered this?
If you stay, how would you handle working for a fund that treats you like that. I am in a similar spot and found myself caring less about the fund politics / doing extra effort things. I still get my work done, but don’t go above and beyond given those efforts aren’t rewarded… we have a very old school promotion cycle.
Interested to hear thoughts!
Go where you’re treated best and compensated fairly. I had an unconventional path into finance, used to work in real estate brokerage. Even though I make a bit more now in IB, I still prefer the business model our brokerage had where we were paid on commissions based on how much revenue we brought in rather than what title we have. It’s funny how in IB/PE, those pay structures only occur after ~a decade of working
But how long would it take for someone like OP to get promoted usually? Asking as I’m in a similar situation
That's a good point. I'd suggest this too
I honestly don't want to do this. If I'm mentally unchecked I won't do good work and that bugs me a lot. The right but tough thing to do maybe for me is to start taking on more and more responsibility and figure out how things are done at +1 level so if I have to move, I can atleast demonstrate capability. Stuck in a workplace and demotivated has been horrible for me in the past. But this is obviously hard to do if you are pissed at your boss
I think you should still do good work regardless. That said, If you do go above and beyond make sure it’s for yourself and not the firm. Don’t stay up all night building random investment cases nobody asked for. Do proactively reach out to potential add-on’s, provide actual value to portco’s, build your network, etc.. Do things that build bullet points on your resume + give you good experience.
Either way, if you are even positing this you know the answer deep down is that this firm might not be the right fit. You should always be searching for the perfect home IMO and never settle for anything less.
Well said. Exactly what I’m thinking in my current situation
Well said. Exactly what I’m thinking in my current situation
Well said. Exactly what I’m thinking in my current situation
Ignore my title but similar situation. Getting paid Associate level but wasn't promoted because I didn't have sufficient yrs of exp. Instead someone else with more experience got promoted although they got paid lower bonus and same/lower base. Should I look for other places simply for a title - idc about money just jaded about the no promotion despite clearly being better than some associates in everyone's eyes, except head of EMEA team
Based on the information provided, I think you should wait out the promotion. If you lateral now, you’ll be introducing a few risks:
1) The market isn’t great right now so if you join a firm that doesn’t meet its fundraising target, you’ll be one of the first people to be let go as you’ll be new. Doesn’t matter how good or promising you are, you’ll be at risk.
2) You’ve never been promoted. There is no evidence on your resume to suggest that you’re good at the job. A promotion is a clear stamp of approval from a firm that you’re a good performer and lateraling to another firm sends the opposite signal, that you didn’t cut it. If for some reason things don’t work out at the next firm, you’ll find recruiting even more challenging. I’m not saying you aren’t good, just that you’ll need to find a way to convince recruiters and a promotion sure helps with this.
3) Senior Associate roles are hard to recruit into — lots of firms just promote internally rather than roll the dice on an outside candidate. The main exception is a growing firm, but there are far fewer of those these days than there were over the last 10 years.
4) By the time you get through recruiting and start the new job, you’ll lose probably 4-6 months. At that point you’ll be a year away from promotion and may as well have stuck around.
I’m not saying don’t move — I hate firms that promise promotion timelines and conveniently forget when you end up joining them. I’m just saying you may want to wait for the promotion to hit and then start recruiting for a better long-term home.
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