TLDR- current ASO2 in PE seriously thinking about going back to my IB group. anyone have experiences going from PE back to IB? What do people typically do after their PE aso programs? There’s a couple forums on this thread I’ve read thru already but wondering if anyone has updates or thoughts on the below.
Here’s my thesis
1. Better cash comp for the short to medium term. I’m a girl and I just want to stack some cash before I tap out of the industry after having kids. The VPs at my fund have never seen a carry payout and they’re all tweaking all the time about it.
2. Ib is easier, I want an easier job. As an analyst people would always shit on ib for being unintellectual but hey if it pays the same I’d rather think less hard lol. I’m not that obsessed with the job to see myself in pe long term… I had a generally good time as an IB analyst - had late nights but all in all it was a work hard play hard atmosphere. I came to PE where a 80 hr work week in PE feels worse than a 100 hr work week in IB because of how much more intense and stressful the work is
3. Ib people are more normal and easier to spend time around. Also, my coworkers are way more serious and obsessed with the job. As in they spend their free time reading CIMs. Versus in banking it seemed like everyone just wanted to be as efficient as possible and people had more hobbies outside of work. I also found banking to be more diverse and it’s better to be a girl in IB than PE…
Risks
- Exit ops at vp+ in IB seem harder - but seems like I can wait for the right corp dev maybe IR oppty
- Won’t have an analyst class to bond with anymore which makes it more lonely, things are always better the first time around - afraid I’m chasing a memory of the highs and forgetting all the lows
Following, currently a PE ASO1 who had a much better experience (and lower hours) in a good-culture IB group. Recently talked to someone who did IB->PE->T7 MBA->future post-MBA associate with what sounds like a VP fast track, and he seemed content on his path despite it not being the most optimal from a time perspective.
Also wondering if private credit is worth considering as I’ve heard similar things about work being more boring, but hours seem more predictable than IB as well, plus anecdotally I see more WFH/remote flexibility there than in IB/PE
Briefly thought about public markets as well but feel like it would be too stressful for my personality type.
Why was PE actually just a scam
Do MBA Associates actually get fast tracked?
I basically agree with all of your logic, especially if maximizing cash comp in the near/medium term before dipping for a family is the plan (presumably making exit ops a bit less of a priority). While I don't have plans to go back to IB, I do miss the more collegial nature of banking and 100% agree on the easier work/stress level differences. Although I do always remember the times in banking that were pure hell and wonder if it's a bit of nostalgia.
I am wary abt working so much especially since I’m getting older but really at a loss for what jobs are a good idea at this point. Do you have any good leads/ have any friends who are happy in their seats?
I just want a straight answer from someone on what IB/PE people should do for longevity/WLB. I moved to corporate but sometimes it just feels like I took a pay cut to work the same hours.
Take this with a grain of salt since I am just an associate, but I think true WLB is a myth. I don't know anyone who above me occasionally is not hitting some longer hours (~60ish max) in banking. The best guys at our firm are have found ways to be more efficient in sourcing and basically passing off most of the day to day to juniors. Don't get me wrong they do have some good weeks and are able to take family vacations, but there are still bad weeks in there.
Is the outsized comp probably worth the extra effort, I think most seniors at our firm would agree and that is the sacrifice they are willing to make.
What were your IB hours? I also moved to corporate and its like 40-50 hours vs 70-100 hours in my old IB group.
Everyone who thinks PE is more "intellectual" than IB hasn't done PE.
It's the same work, or highly similar. I've left PE and gone back to IB, and ultimately wound up in PE again but that's not because of anything about IB vs. PE. My choices were all firm/group specific. Same goes for others I know who've made the same moves.
All of your reasons for wanting to do IB are pretty sound, and I'd do it too for the right offer. It's all about the individual situation. Your negatives on PE are pretty specific to your firm, and so too will be any positives or negatives about IB. Focus on getting in with a good group and with strong MDs who are going to deliver deal flow.
I’m in PE at a MF. Your reasoning makes sense. You certainly have to be obsessed with the job, the personalities of your co-workers tends to be more dry, and there is always a feeling of competition with your peers in the air. Frankly, the joy of closing a deal doesn’t even last that long as you’re immediately thinking about the next one while juggling the growing number of stains in the portfolio.
i agree. how can you stay at a job like this in the long run without being obsessed? i feel so fake.
I've been saying this for years on WSO, and usually get monkey poop for it, because PE is supposed to be some promised land, and no one wants their bubbles burst. I left a supportive EB (albeit in their PE department) for an up-and-coming PE fund, that ended up becoming a MF in Asia. Biggest career mistake I've ever made, and I was unable to reverse it.
1. IB had far better training and career development. My manager had to report on my development, and was judged on it. In PE, no one has time to teach you anything or interest in doing so. At the ibank we had quarterly reviews, with HR montioring our learning and development. My manager was judged on how well I was developing, and he took it seriously. I was drinking from the firehose and loving it. The bank paid for a week of financial modeling training by AMT, for example. And because the bank was of a decent size, there was always someone I could go talk to, befriend, and learn from. I would regularly go talk to the macro-economists for their market views, go speak to the equity research folks for industry insights, etc.
Conrast that to the PE firm. When I moved to the PE side no one cared about my development at all. There were no resources, no one to learn from. A lean and small PE firm just doesn't have the mindset and resources to train up and invest in people the way an ibank generarlly can.
2. The brand of the IB was (probably) better for my CV than the PE firm I joined. There's a lot of PE funds around. This PE fund became a MF, so had brand value, as we were managing $16bn for some very blue-chip LPs. But the IB was far better known across the finance community, just by virtue of its size and historic tenure. Outside of PE, not too many people had heard of the fund I joined despite it being an industry leader in China. That lack of brand awareness has hobbled chances of return to IB or non-China PE.
3. Carried interest is a scam. You can't rely on the PE fund's performance if/maybe/possible/someday payout. Especially not early in your career, when you're broke and need to pay rent and save for a downpayment on an apartment. That carried interest golden carrot gets dangled in front of you, and is so seductive. But you probably will never see that payout, and even if you do, it's a decade away. Unless you were a founding MD at my firm, your carry wouldn't mean squat. Also the returns are highly at-risk and subject to market cycles. I would recommend anyone consider only their salary and bonus as real, and any carried interest as a windfall - if it ever happens.
4. In the EB, people were a mixed bag, but my team and manager were nice. One's experience is deeply group-specific. In my PE shop, I thought the people were nice, but those smiles hid knives, and when the firm grew the politics and fighting over money just got toxic.
in PE no one taught me and it was held against me that i didnt know how to do things. people did not have sympathy. people in my class were all competitive against each other. my seniors were nice to my face but as you said mean behind my back. it feels awful when you work 100h a week, get smiles to your face, and stabbed in the back after
totally. Sorry to hear our experiences are similar.
As someone who’s done exactly this here’s my two cents: 1. Execution is easier than putting your name behind the deal. Seniors at my previous firm got let go because of underperforming deals, in many cases are out of their control. 2. Hours are not that different, especially if you are at a volume shop. 3. Salesmanship is still very important at senior level. I got staffed on LP DD conversations and how you sell your fund and your deal is not that different, but how you get paid is.
I’d add the nuance that we had a two years up or out program which made everyone worry about their jobs at the junior level, and I’d say on the buyside, commercial DD plays a significantly bigger part of the process.
Maybe I’m lazy or dumb, or both, I do see IB as a better personal fit for me.
Also explored IR too. It’s definitely not for everyone. Writing up fluffy language to beg for money sucks
did you go back into ib? are you happy abt it? anything unexpected?
Yes. I joined a relationship bank. Was on track to be promoted at my former MF but took a title cut at the bank instead.
The personalty type of a PE person and an IB person are very different. I do not like pure sales - I like technical sales (i.e. product specific, value-add). You can hire the 3-5 best bankers in any sector and get the same outcome.
Decide what works for you. I would rather get paid less and build great companies than sell the best companies for slightly more money. The tax code is in my favor if I do this job well but who cares at a certain point.
Decide what you like and stick with it.
And you don't think PE is sales-driven? You're always selling. Selling yourself to get in, selling your firm and capital to a prospective company, selling the deal to the IC, selling yourself to the staffer, selling your fund to the LPs. The selling NEVER stops. At least IB is up-front about it.
Did PE for 4yrs straight out of college - now looking to go to IB. Dealing with shit portco's for extended periods of time, multi years deals, self-teaching / no development opps 80% of the time, 80-100h weeks, monotonous portco work with no end in sight and no carry possible, is simply no longer appealing. Cons are outweighing the pros.
People on this forum need to learn how to do what’s best for them and not just what random people on the internet think. If you think going back to banking is the best move then do it. No one on here knows who you are
The sad reality imho is that a generation of bankers were sold on the promised land of PE and they put all their chips on it in the form of long hours, stress, long-dated carry, letting it be the foundation of their ego etc.
But in the end, by and large, it’s just another commoditized space where there’s more mouths to feed than pie, and a lot of similar brains and similar funds bidding up the same pool of similar assets with the same bank debt. And all the “intellectual” work that people convince themselves they’re doing to add value is not strongly correlated with results - turns out the juicy fund returns of pre-2000s could be chalked up to a nascent industry, and those afterwards to decades of QE driving multiple expansion.
Of course there’s exceptions to the way I paint it, but I foresee a prolonged period of contraction in PE and boy is it gonna suck for a lot of people who wagered their career on the dream.
In short - yeah, I prefer IB and I think the time for the contrarian trade to PE idealism has long since come around.
What position are you in IB and what has comp scaled to throughout your career? From most ppl I talk to they seem to think that if you can Crack it to principal or partner level your cash comp will be a slight discount to ib pay but one carry payday easily pushes them over the edge compared to your average IB MD. What do you think?
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