MF (BX, Apollo, Carlyle, KKR, TPG, Oaktree) vs BB (GS, MS, JP)
Hi,
I'm in my final year MSc in Europe and am in this (good) situation:
I got some months ago a SA offer for IBD at a BB (GS, MS, JP) in London, where the probability to get a FT are historically quite high.
Now, I have received also an offer for an internship at a MF in London (think KKR, BX, Carlyle, Oaktree, TPG, Apollo), where there are chances to get a FT but they are much lower than in the IBD case.
Given the fact that I have previous experience at a Middle Market PE fund, I am confident that in the future I want to be in one of those MF fund (so I would prefer the PE offer), however I am a bit scared to accept the MF PE offer by the low chances to get the FT at that fund, in which case I would be in the difficult position to find a FT somewhere else: indeed, it's rare to get in as analyst in those other funds, and for IBD I would recruit only for two BBs for FT (the third one won't probably consider me, if I renege their offer), and I wouldn't like to consider other banks (not because I have something against them, but simply because for the future recruiting for Private Equity positions, GS, MS and JP are more powerful brands).
What do you suggest to do?
I'm trying to postpone to September the start of the PE offer, but it's unlikely to happen, given the first feedback.
It really depends. What is the MF role for? The only MF with Analyst positions in real PE roles is BX. Apollo/KKR/... all have for credit roles. Is this what you want to do? Moreover, what previous experience do you have? If you already had experience in a BB maybe you are already skilled with the job and you are likely to perform well since the beginning. About not recruiting in any other place other than MS GS JPM: makes no sense imo. A lot of people in top roles come from EB/other BB
Thanks for your view.
It's an investment role and I have a solid work experience, not in a BB though.
As regards not recruiting for other banks, I may be a bit extreme and, should I be then in that position, I would probably recruit also for other banks; the fact is that they have lower brand power than GS, MS, JP, and the investment roles in MFs in London are limited.
Is the team where you would intern at the MF the one where you would like to stay? Then go there
Try postponing MF to off cycle?
Otherwise, was in a similar position but picked BB based on the following reasoning
- Re conversion rates, may be a real concern. Easier to convert BB SA to FT than to do MF SA then try to recruit BB FT. Lon FT headcount is low + Especially given COVID + Brexit now
- In the event you want to do something other than PE eventually, BB provides more generalist experience and usually more breadth of deals. Nothing really lost doing 1-2 years in IBD - If you are good enough to get the SA offer at the MF, you will likely be good enough to recruit for MF Assoc later on
- Overall, being in a large training class with other new analysts > being the only youngest analyst in a lean MF team (usually will be the case in Lon), at least for the first career year in my personal opinion
Boils down to personal situation and preference. Also obviously if based on recruiting process you liked one team a lot more then go with that one.
Thanks!
They are very good points.
If I chose the MF PE, and then I wouldn’t convert, which options do you think I would have?
Probably try to recruit for BB FT? But realistically little spots so may end up recruiting for BB SA again.
What is the historical conversion rate at your fund, maybe try to talk to analysts there and find out whether they are looking to convert?
If conversion is the exception rather than the norm then best to be realistic
You should change your name - if your first name really is in your username then it'll be very obvious who you are, given how small the analyst programs are.
It's not a good look to join KKR and have a colleague see that you weren't sure if you wanted KKR over GS. Drops return offer likelihood to like 0%.
Thanks, but I don’t believe that my chances to eventually convert into FT would change because someone at the MF PE reads that I carefully consider all elements for my career before making a choice.
As I said, my preference is for the MF PE, but the concern is in terms of conversion to FT, which is an objective element.
As mentioned above, try doing both if possible (by postponing the MF internship). If that is not possible and you have a GS offer, I would personally go there. Your learning experience will be good and you will have plenty of chances to come back to PE after a couple of years.
What is the historical conversion rate for your fund? Did you recruit for the others BBs you mentioned and struck out (i.e. your current offer is your only shot) or do you still have a few gos left?
I'd personally back yourself and go PE - much more differentiating than analyst x'000 from GS
As far as I know, it's quite low (some years they convert, other years they don't)
At the moment, I only have those two offers and, you probably know better than me, FT recruiting is risky.
I totally agree when you say that a MF PE profile would be much more "diverse" with respect to a BB one; my question however is: "how could I leverage it to get the best out of the MF PE internship?"
It's clear you only have the two offers, but did you get rejected at the others, or simply not apply? If you didn't apply you can see it as having a few shots still. If you did and were rejected its a very different story
Oaktree is not going to convert.
Don't listen to these clowns. Take the MF offer. You have clear articulated that you prefer that role. It is a statistical probability that you won't successfully recruit for a MF if you go to a top BB. In the event you don't convert to FT, a MF on your resume will get you interviews at most banks
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