PE Associate Burnout
Worked at an infamously sweaty banking group before this but one year into PE at a top shop, the stress here is absolutely incomparable. Had a great review but feel as if I’m burning out quick….not feeling great physically though i work out 5x a week (exhaustion, brain fog, digestion issues, low libido) + severe dread and stress from thinking about work (including not able to enjoy slower weeks because of it as well).
Is anyone in the same boat and if so, how have you guys been able to mentally detach and/or attach less meaning to work? Know that’s the solution here but obviously much easier said than done…..
Have seen a few of these posts lately. Just curious, given you come from a sweaty banking group, what part of your current role is giving you stress? Is it things like lack of guidance, not having a bullpen to bounce ideas off etc. or is the same old shit ton of work, impossibly tight deadlines and always being on call type things?
For sure - some nuance but I’d broadly bucket it as follows.
1) Responsibility: Associates are more or less in charge of nearly all PPT and excel (which also leads to increased autonomy and is a part of the job I do really like, despite the increased stress it causes). You’re essentially “responsible for” every number in every deck. Not just making sure footnotes tie, but also being able to justify / defend underlying assumptions in complex operating models. A helpful equivalent is that as a PE associate/SR associate, you’re basically in charge of everything a banking analyst, associate, and VP is. If you’re a high agency person, this is something you enjoy (as mentioned above), but it still causes you a much higher amount of stress and anxiety.
2) Support: goes hand in hand with above, but I remember in banking if i was stuck on a few things i’d casually chat up my VP, or alternatively, would feel some level of “safety” in that every single number will be checked by both my associate , VP, and even directors/MDs at times. absolutely not the case in PE - people often “directionally check” your numbers to ensure no clear errors but not always are going through cell by cell. Generally less of a collaborative air as well so VPs aren’t getting down and dirty and training you. It’s really a sink or swim model (at least at the shop i’m at which is a MF/UMM). When your partner or IC makes a comment on numbers looking strange, this gives you a heart attack lol. Or imagine working with your portco and talking with CFO on large strategic decisions based off your numbers and having to defend it. Big big change from banking where the analyst is never doing this (CFO probably doesn’t even know who you are in most cases…)
3) Hours: hours are comparable to banking, but the amount of volume you need to churn out is infinitely more. A PE 85 hour week is insanely grueling and honestly feels more tiring than times i’ve worked 100-110 in banking. There’s no 3 hour downtime waiting for comments - during 2nd round deal diligence, it’s quite literally a full sprint from wake to sleep with no time for weeks to even sit down properly for lunch or get a 30 min run/lift in.
4) Job Obsession: no other way to put it people here are obsessed with their job. I’m extremely career ambitious but lot of people in PE take it to another level , to the extent to which i genuinely am unsure if some of my coworkers would choose to enjoy their weekend if they had the option to. Leads to very sharp elbowed cultures in PE - no joke cracking, no bullpen vibes, just very corporate. In my one year, don’t think anyone above associate level has asked a single question about my personal life beyond “what did you do this weekend”. Seems to be the case with many of my friends as well. Lot of back stabbing given limited partner seats unlike banking where there isn’t as large of a cap to MD seats..put simply, people take themselves way too seriously and that doesn’t lead to a great working environment.
I actually haven’t found timelines to be as tight as banking (not many banking fire drill scenarios where you’re rushing to print at 3am for a 9am bake-off), but there’s MUCH more on your plate (1-2 portcos + 1-2 deals ur lightly reviewing + 1 deal in deep diligence = ur screwed)…what that means is that u need to work as if you’re in a fire drill if you want to finish all ur responsibilities in time. sometimes u work with that fire drill “cortisol” for 1-2 weeks straight (instead of for 1-2 days in banking), and that physically is absolutely insanely draining .
Agree with a lot of this as someone that worked at a “sweaty” MF. I found a lot of the issue stems from doing everything yourself and constantly trying to “play up” to get the promotion.
How was the transition to a hedge fund? Have considered this route so would be great to hear your decision process, experience so far, translatability of PE skills, etc.
That's pretty intense man, thanks for sharing. I never understood the whole PE is banking 2.0 concept, similar foundational skillset but the work and environment are so different.
I can see how if you don't have that job obsession you mention and thrive in that kind of environment, burnout is a thing. It just sounds really difficult to detach or backseat so to speak.
I hope things get better for you, hang in there!
Nice comment. cheers to you
Banking sounds like paradise compared to this
Recently started as an Associate 1 at a large cap fund and this is consistent with my experience already. Some key differences I've noticed versus my time in banking:
1) little to no formal training - in banking we had multiple weeks of formal training which covered the firms ways of doing things - not the case in PE. We didn't even have an overview of the tools and resources available to us, much less how to use them or how to model, etc. You're expected to have already learned all this in banking or figure it out on the job
2) no support or coverage from VPs. As you said, in banking, I felt like I could always go to my VP with questions. In PE, I feel like this is frowned upon and you're either expected to already know the answer (despite having just started less than a month ago) or figure it out yourself. VPs are often unresponsive to direct messages or emails for hours and expect you to just figure it out in the background, and to be more familiar with the numbers and materials than they are. You're basically not allowed to ask questions and the work is expected to be perfect despite this.
3) fewer resources. I was fairly shocked at this one but I definitely have fewer resources in PE than I did in banking - no dedicated research team, no "productions" team, worse plug-ins / add-in / macros that make simple tasks which would have been quick in banking take far longer than they should
4) more admin work. Another surprising difference, but I feel there's more admin work in PE than banking, which you then have to juggle with more complex work on deals.
5) less appreciation for hard or good work and late nights. Late nights were far from uncommon in banking, but at least felt like there was more appreciation from VPs and MDs when they knew you worked late on a fire drill or took the initiative to go above and beyond on an ask. In PE, both long hours / late nights and always taking initiative and going above and beyond feel like they're the expectation, so there is simply less appreciation from those above you and doing all this is simply "meeting expectations" versus "exceeding expectations"
6) less camaraderie. Echo your points above but at my shop there's no bullpen culture and very little camaraderie, even between associates, but certainly between associates and anyone more senior. It makes the job feel much more lonely and isolating, which just compounds the stress.
Sounds unhealthy. Are there more chill jobs like a GP or FoF type work? I would even look at corp dev and move to a lower COL city.
I resonate with all of this. 1 year into PE and am heavily thinking about just quitting and accepting a corp dev job.
Do you think you would be able to "push through" and make it to vp / partner? Is your stress really that unbearable? Mine is horrible. I wake up everyday so anxious and am nervous 24/7 and on edge. I dread coming to work every single day. I hope to leave ASAP but don't want to get off this "high-finance road" that is so hard to get into in the first place and that so many people want. Want to hear your thoughts here.
Lol I'm a year in to PE now and I feel the same. I don't enjoy my slow weeks or weekends because the stress lingers. My body is in decent shape because I eat well and exercise regularly but my face is exhausted. I don't enjoy the work environment, it's needlessly and endlessly competitive. $170k~ doing a 9-6pm Corp Dev gig sounds like heaven.
Does anybody have thoughts on handling the stress and anxiety part? I am moving from 1 buyout shop to another, and in my 2 years at the first firm, my anxiety only calmed down knowing I’ll be out in 2 years (my firm is 2 and out). The new role is not, lol, and I’d appreciate any insights from the folks who have tools to manage it!
This may not work for you and you'll probably have to tweak the approach over time. But walking through in your head a general list of things that could trigger your stress and then just expecting those events to happen helps reduce the panic when it happens (ie expecting your weekend to blow up, expecting no help from seniors, expecting to be grilled on every number, etc). That helps with reducing stress from uncontrollable events. And then broadly just reminding yourself that the job pays well, gives you lots of unique/valuable experience, etc., (rather than focusing on the stress of the particular deliverable / small details at the time) can help you grind through sprints more easily. And then you can also just take a step back and ask yourself what's the worst case outcome of whatever you're working on, and as long as it's not going to ruin your life / get you fired because of your work quality, then you should feel a little more at ease.
Not to hijack the thread but is VP life more chill? Would have something to look forward to that may help out?
Pay is higher but stress is infinitely higher
Can you elaborate on why? If the associate handles everything in the model/ppt, what is the VPs main responsibility in PE?
The head of my team says the VP level is the hardest years in the industry. People expect you to perform like a senior, lead teams and diligence workstreams, whilst also starting relationship building and sourcing. All tasks which you normally haven’t had exposure to. Couple this with being the highest paid level that doesn’t bring in revenues (as sourcing deals as a performance KPI is typically only from principal level onwards), results in high level of stress
Just crossed the 2 year mark and have received the nod to senior associate. Wake up every day dreading checking my outlook that is already being blown up before I even get to my desk. The work never ends, whether it be deal diligence, portco bs, mountains of admin work, or whatever new LP ask comes in the door. Probably gonna try to grind it out for a year as a senior associate then gtfo, just not a life I want to live long term.
I will say, as a sr. asso (third year), I would be careful about making a career decision after just one year. I think I underestimated how much it helps to have seen/done every type of analysis expected of you (or something similar) for your confidence. Yes, I still get stressed with tight deadlines and lots to do, but I underestimated how much of my stress in the first 12-18 months was anxiety about incompetence for lack of a better word. Also, once you’ve done the work once, the next time is faster. At the end of the day the industry may still not be for you (jury is still out in my case) but just an observation/reflection I had. Good luck.
Started at a large cap fund back at the beginning of the year and I and every other newer assoc feels pretty much the same way as OP / commenters...is this the reality of PE these days? Has it always been like this? The vibe in the office is pretty abysmal even though everyone at the jr level gets along. And it's not like the fund has had challenged fundraising or performance.
It's too bad b/c certain aspects of the work are genuinely interesting and the people particularly at the Partner-level within the firm are sharp as hell but quality of life has really gone downhill even compared to banking...
lol it’s pretty funny to read the comments on this thread. The experience you are describing comes down from the top, which is the generation above you. That era of Wall Street is different than the current one of the last few years where everyone has been coddled by the banks. The reality is this is what an intense career is like when you aren’t being protected by a big bank.
Part of the burnout for me is false deadlines, chasing already dead deals that wont go through, doing random side projects, and not having clear knowledge of when I can "turn off"
Think it honestly comes down to if you want to make big money then it's most likely gonna suck ass for a long time, in no world can you be 26 and clear 300k+ with a foreseeable path to 7 figs without your bosses squeezing every last ounce of productivity from you and working you to the bone. We are all expendable commodities at the end of day. You want to be rich? shovel shit for 15 years in this industry, have the balls and creativity to start your own shit, be a quant, or get lucky and find some glittering unicorn gig. I'm too dumb to be a quant, and I am not creative enough and too risk averse to be an entrepreneur rn, so I gotta come to terms with reality. Happiness = Expectations - Reality, you can adjust your expectations, or you can change your reality, it is up to you.
I agree with this. When I first started out in IB, I always complained about the hours, and how it’s absurd compared to the pay. When I moved to PE, and definitely now after a few years on the buy side, I started seeing the pay discrepancy vs my non-finance friends and even friends that stayed in IB. This has aided a lot in putting the hours and stress into context. Sure, it sucks to not being able to perfectly plan weekends or holidays, and sometimes having to cancel dinner with friends. But to be honest, seeing my comp being already close to 10x my non-finance friends, being able to vacate at the places my partner and I go to, the flat/location we live in and the restaurants we go to makes it much more acceptable. That being said, my gf works in PE, so that does help a lot in ease of mind, knowing my SO understands the nature of the job.
If I can share 1 tip to people struggling with the lifestyle: just accept and embrace blown-up plans, rather than trying to fight the injustice. It’ll save you a lot of energy and mental health. Oh, and exercise, a lot… You earn enough to go to the best gyms, use PTs, eat and drink the most nutritious and healthy foods,… Anything to get you in the gym 4-5x a week or out for a run
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