Underrated MF/UMM Funds
Thoughts?
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Feels oxymoronic no? Not sure how a fund can get to UMM/MF status whilst still going under the radar
Underrated MF / UMM is an oxymoron but some that come to mind are EQT, Genstar, GTCR, H&F, Leonard Green, New Mountain, and Veritas.
On the flip side, some overrated ones are Carlyle and Vista Equity.
H&F, LGP, Veritas “underrated” 😂😂😂. The question is stupid though, can’t be a UMM/MF and also be underrated
Is NMC really underrated? Seems to have had a failed AI play and recent fund performance doesn’t seem great
How is Carlyle overrated, everyone shits on it on this forum
GTCR, LGP, Veritas?
Might as well add HF and KKR eh
This is an asinine question to begin with but at least I gave an answer. My answer was based on what the average person on the street would think.
Easy answers would be Genstar, Veritas, NMC, GTCR, LGP. Don’t think anyone is underrating CD&R or H&F anymore
Unpopular opinion, but overrated shops in THL, Lindsay Goldberg, BDT, Carlyle
More unpopular opinions, but underrated MF/ UMM shops in Nordic, Hg (although software exposure is dicey rn), EQT, CVC, Brookfield, TJC, WCAS, Berkshire, Linden, Great Hill, Towerbrook. I also think MDP and AmSec will rebound nicely over time, if that’s where you want to stake your horse.
I think AmSec is a good callout here. They got a lot of hate on this site recently but they've been busy - some strong exits over the past year or so. I'm sure LPs are very happy with them right now.
No, they’re pretty cooked regardless
I'm so confused, everyone on this forum hates on BDT but i look at their page and there's ppl with return offers at MS, GS, Point72, Apax, etc who all took BDT instead. Not saying they made the right choice but there has to be something I'm missing right?
Not sure I agree that people on this forum hate on BDT. The general sentiment seems to be that it's a great seat. That said, there does seem to be a fair amount of misinformation about the firm, likely because they're so private. I think the talent speaks for itself—anecdotally have a friend who chose BDT over one of the MFs and seems generally happy with that decision in hindsight
BDT II and III are both pretty weak performance wise. I think BDT I may also be in that camp, but i haven't seen it a while so not 100% sure.
Don't think any MFs are "underrated" per say
UMM (depending on how you define it): AIP, KPS, TJC
Agree with these 3. Good momentum in some of these UMM industrials firms. KPS and TJC esp doing well it seems like.
KPS has long been one of the most desired firms to join, not sure if underrated. Agree on the other 2. Would throw Arcline and 26North in for other Industrial focused names.
Think a lot of these younger UMMs might be underrated relative to career advancement opportunities, as a lot of people seem to look solely at fund size and past exits when evaluating firms. Examples in industrials would be Arcline and 26North, and I am sure there are others in other sectors.
Underrated from what perspective (e.g., returns, culture, future trajectory vs. current perception)? The few that pop into my mind.
NMC (good returns, pay below market carry), Berkshire (returns are ok not great but amazing culture), GTCR (good returns), Providence (good returns despite lower prior fundraise and great culture), Veritas (good comp, rough culture, great returns but unclear trajectory given software exposure).
Among MF can’t really be “underrated” partly by definition but would say the big Euro funds like CVC, EQT have business school placements and deal flow that rivals the big America MFs. On the UMM side there are more that fly under the radar (Lone Star, Brookfield, 3G once upon a time, etc.) Again though, this exercise is a waste of time. What you want to find are the under the radar specialists with super smart principals, proprietary angles and a path to grow.
Golden Gate, Sycamore, Onex, Crestview
sir the zombie fund chain is down the hall and to the right
it is so funny + shocking that so many people in IB/PE/Finance get their news and worldview from Forbes, of all publications.
integrum?
2.5bn is umm?
Sector specialists like Arlington, KPS, SVP, Greenbriar, AIP, Linden, Patient Square, Arcline, 26 North and Atlas Holdings
I wouldn’t include Patient Square, SVP, or 26 North
If including software names since a lot of people still remain interested in tech: I would include Hg and FP, TA on the larger UMM side and a variety of smaller MM/UMMs that are more growth / growth buyouts like Great Hill, AKKR, Haveli, Bregal, Lead Edge. These are either firms who raised successfully recently or are noted top performers in terms of previous track record.
Would also argue sector specialists as well.
Hg for Software. Nordic for Payments. WCAS for Healthcare Services. Atlas for Industrials.
Any color on Nordic or WCAS? never see stuff on them on this forum.
Agree on Hg.
Fund size is large and continuing to increase (Saturn 2 was 5B, Saturn 3 was 11B, now raising Saturn 4 at 14B; there’s also Genesis at 8B and Mercury at 2B) + associate there is I guess now dating Olivia Rodrigo
Bump
Bain Capital
Pretty much anything software is overrated. They are all screwed and bought in a market where AI wasn’t a factor
Guys I found Warren Buffet
This is just as bad of a take as saying all of software is a great investment like people were saying in the mid-2010s.
huge opportunity to implement AI and decimate the workforce / compensation expense
THL is underrated on this forum by now. Yes they have had a bad fund recently, but they aren't Onex or Abry, who have had multiple bad funds. Similarly Providence is also underrated and have actually had some decent exits of their portfolio recently including to Thoma. Being a JAMMBO doesn't necessarily make you a zombie fund in the making.
Searchlight Capital? Thoughts? UMM or MM?
congrats on Searchlight!
UMM is generally defined by HHs and colloquially as a minimum of 5bn in fund size with a lot of 4 - 5bn funds also being referred to as UMMs colloquially (such as AEA and Charlesbank). Generally of the opinion anything from 1 - 4.5bn is a MM and 4.5bn+ is UMM. Searchlight is a larger MM, but not a UMM, albeit with a broader mandate than a typical JAMMBO. Distinctions ultimately just come down to how large of a check size a fund can right.
European MFs are underrated, their internal promotion is quite nice
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