Point 72 vs Blackstone
I have an offer for point 72 academy and blackstone private equity. Which should I choose? Both are for summer 2024.
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Blackstone and it is not even close. P72 is a great program and training but having BX PE as your first job opens every single door (including to every top SM HF as well as P72 in the future) while the reverse is not true
Disagree with this. BX PE (assuming your offer is for corporate pe, not tac opps/infra/re) only really opens up doors at Tiger Global (in terms of doors that aren’t also opened at P72) which as you can see from last year's returns and senior people (like John Curtius, Alex Kimball, etc.) leaving is probably not the best place to be right now. P72 gives you a guaranteed top HF seat, enough name to easily go to MF PE if you decide HF isn't for you, or an easier shot at moving to a fund that does both (Elliott, Viking, etc.). Most people on this forum are students and just repeat what they hear about BX, but in this case, P72 seems the better option.
Not so sure that P72 is "enough name" to just get into MF PE. I have interned there and while it is a great program for public markets investing, thinking about how business work, and building operating models to reflect your thoughts its less of path headhunters and potentially PE firms are going to be looking for, especially since you have never run a deal process before. BX will open the door to any SM or MM and the work would be more applicable to activist or credit HFs as well if you aren't 100% sold on L/S
Point72 is going to be a training program and then hitting the desk ramping coverage on 50-100 names where you are just focused on one sector and trying to find winners and losers and/or doing pairs trades. I found it fairly interesting but not so sure I personally would want to do it for a career or even my first job if optionality is lower
lol ok intern
Point72 analysts don't go on to working at Elliot or Viking. What are you even saying? It's a multimanager and most MM guys stay in the space and don't go off to SMs.
It's also hilariously casual to say BX PE only opens doors to Tiger. Tiger has like one or two analyst seats open up every two years and that's competing with Warburg, Apollo, KKR, and other groups at BX.
Is everyone on this site a LARPer who read the most common threads on here? These spots are not that common to get.
If you are a true hardo that lives and breathes the market, P72. Otherwise, BX
Might be biased, analyst at top SM (Lone Pine/Coatue/Maverick) after doing MF PE analyst stint at BX/SL. Top HF jobs out of undergrad are on a class of their own, and P72 is up there with DE Shaw Fundamentals and the special sits places like Silver Point. While BX might give you more optionality at first glance, you're junior enough that even if you do decide public markets are not for you, you can easily transition to PE or others. While most people stay in public markets, the few that I know that switched to private at the junior level easily got FT analyst and associate gigs at BCP/KKR/Silver Lake, etc. Truth is public markets are much more interesting, PE is basically banking 2.0 and gets repetitive. With public markets you are continually evaluating the chess pieces, even at the junior level, while in MF PE (even if this forum glorifies it) you're basically crunching excels for an MD who has a "thesis" that won't get tested until 5-7 years down the line when the portco gets sold.
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This might be a troll post, but if not, congrats on landing arguably the best HF and PE offers an undergraduate can get. I think choosing between these two comes down to your personality because honestly, these jobs are actually extremely different. "Private equity guys are preppy, hedge fund guys are scrappy" is a common saying here. Are you confident in your personality to navigate office politics/bureaucracy at Blackstone? Or are you more comfortable in your raw analytical/creative ability that is awarded much more in the hedge fund world?
It's true that Blackstone sets you up with more optionality and great exits to single manager hedge funds. But it's also worth noting the strategy that Point72 operates in (market neutral, multi manager) is set to be a winner at least in the near-term. If you're interested in hedge funds from the outset, why not join a top brand with rapidly growing AUM and the most respected training program in the industry? I've heard great things about the academy on here such as high return offer rate and relatively high career longevity.
So it comes down to you, not the firms. Do some introspection instead is my advice. Both Blackstone and Point72 can make you a millionaire if you're the right person for the job. But the preppy kid who banks on soft skills and smooth-talking ability would get absolutely slaughtered in a multi-manager pod, and the same could be said about a scrappy, introverted person in mega fund private equity.
If you want to work for a multi manager, Point 72 likely offers the best training/program out of college (Citadel seems to be building a program as well)
If you want to do PE, or move to a single manager, then BX PE will give you more optionality than any other job out of college. You're capable of going through the team pages at Tiger, D1, Pershing, Soroban, Elliot, etc... and I've never seen a multi manager analyst go to a fund like that. Most analysts at these large single managers have a large cap PE background.
But keep in mind multi managers are some of the best performing hedge funds right now and didn't lever up on tech like most tiger cubs did in 2021 - but other threads point out the fact that while the multi manager platforms are a good firm/product for LPs, that doesn't necessarily equal a good job for you since turnover is high and your seat is never safe.
Partly agree with this. True most SM investing teams are ex large cap PE people but main reason for that is that top performers at Multi Managers just don't leave - they're making so much $ that it doesn't make sense to leave. If they ever were to leave for a SM and play second fiddle to someone else, it would be a downgrade. This is especially true given how tied comp is to fund performance, and sms are underperforming heavily vs mms.
As to high turnover at Multi-Managers, I would say that if you look at recent years, turnover might actually be lower at top MMs (like P72, Millenium, Citadel) vs SMs on a % basis. Several peers got laid off recently at SMs (even top ones) vs MMs. If you show your analytical skills (which since you got both of these jobs, I assume are well developed) you will likely stay and carve out a great career in public investing (or have the optionality to change if you see it's not for you).
Strawberry guy above hit the nail on the head. The top HF jobs out of college are just in a league of their own. P72's academy program seems phenomenal and is not even comparable to BX's program if you want to be in public markets. If you want to do PE long term BX would obviously be better, but not sure why you would even want that (outlook in next 10 years looks really poor, tons of process work as a junior, less intellectually stimulating). And I would argue MM's are growing while SM's are dying off, but even then if you want SM you could move to a SM easily from P72. Would take P72 in a heartbeat if I were you, I'd kill to have that option.
Why do you say that SMs are dying off? Are themes favoring MMs? Would love to hear more about that.
saddest thing ive seen on this site. tigercub69 has yet to find out that tiger is down 60%. hate to break the news to you buddy
I did 2 MFPE internships and 1 internship at a top MMHF before deciding to go for MFPE full time.
My advice would be to go for BX. It'll just open more doors in the future and if you really hate it, you can join MLP/P72/Citadel after 1/2 years. MMHF are always hiring, and its easy going from MFPE to a MMHF. If you ever have a change of heart and want to do anything apart from stock picking, you will not be able to get a job in PE/VC as the skillset you learn at a HF is niche (especially at a market neutral fund). It'll also be difficult to go to SS/Distressed funds or any other jobs outside of finance.
For SMHF, they are a dying breed, but there will always be a few in the future and if you ever want to go for one of them, BX is the better choice overall. Some SMHF are starting to welcome the idea of hiring pod analysts, but you will have to grind to even get an interview. I know a few of the guys who transitioned from MMHF to a top SM and they all said it was painful to do so and lots of funds didn’t even give them a chance.
One last thing to add, read up more about the P72 academy and your day to day at any MMHF. P72 academy is very theoretical (majority of time is spent in a classroom) and working at a MMHF is not what it seems from the outside. Very high stress, and the work you do isn’t really that interesting as many people claim it is. Those claiming that working at a MMHF is amazing because its “intellectually stimulating, involves deep fundamental research etc” have probably never worked a day at a MM. You just cover 30-50 names in a certain sector and you need to know them in and out. When you are new, ramping up on your names is fun, but after that the job is just calling quarters and factors.
The entire point of working for a multi manager out of college is your career longevity at said MM increases significantly compared to regular analysts, since the firm probably drained close to a $1,000,000 into you just to train you. there's a stat somewhere that X% of academy analysts since 2015 at P72 are still with the firm and i remember it being very high.
That's not how these places work. Everyone and I mean everyone working there is just a commodity, nothing more and nothing less. Even if you are the greatest PM ever and have been killing it, 2 bad quarters and you are gone.
If you are a junior (regardless if you joined out of college or out of PE/IB/another HF), you aren't directly responsible for any P&L so what matters is the pod you are going to. I'd argue that going through the P72 programme and not knowing what pod you'll end up in after the academy is a huge risk compared to going from IB/PE since you can diligence the exact pod you'll join.
Some of these funds do allow juniors to interview internally in case the PM blows up, but eventually you will end up as an Analyst with some responsibility for P&L. If they drained 500,000 or 5 million into that Analyst, they will still fire you immediately if you perform badly. Being an academy graduate or ex intern will be much better for them if one of these kids succeeds, but in the end of the day performance rules all, regardless of what they previously spent on you/any internal goodwill you had.
This is why MMHF's are incredibly successful as a business model - they are amazing for upper management/founders/LP's/back office but a horrible place to work as a risk taking employee.
Agree that P72 Academy leans on theoretical but only for the first couple of weeks while you’re getting training. I have several friends who went through it and they were integrated into the team very quickly.
I wouldn’t say that HF is niche, that’s a misconception a lot of people, especially juniors, have. The reason you don’t see people going to other things after they join the HF industry and have been in it for a while is bc they would be taking a severe pay cut and likely doing less interesting work.
As someone who went MF PE -> SM HF (and is currently scared of the future with how SMs are performing) I think that MM out of undergrad (especially at P72) is the best way to go. You have the option to try public markets and can change to PE or something else if you don’t like it. If you go to MF PE and realize you don’t like it, you can switch to a SM but who knows where those will be in terms of performance (some may even close doors like Eton Park, Axon, etc) or be down substantially (like Tiger Global and others are rn). The expected value of starting a career at P72 is higher vs Blackstone.
The skills you learn at a MMHF are pretty niche. It is very different than what you would have learnt at a SM (which is more comparable to PE)
To your point about moving back to PE, i’d say this is pretty much impossible without an MBA if FT. The type of person and the skills needed at a MMHF is so different than what is needed in PE.
Lets put it this way, why should a PE fund hire someone as an Associate who started full time at P72/Citadel/MLP when they have never seen anything transactional in nature? They don't even know what an SPA is and most of the analysis they do is not applicable to PE. Working at a MMHF is not about deep fundamental research and all that jazz that you would do at a SM shop. All the job is calling quarters and factors correct which is irrelevant from a PE perspective. That’s why I made the choice to start in PE instead, as I’ll always be able to go to a MMHF or a SMHF with ease, but the reverse will not be possible unless you get an MBA (and even then it’ll still be difficult). For other jobs outside of PE/HF world, PE sets you up much better and I don't think I need to explain why.
go p72 all the way, stay away from the deal grind. trust me on this
I work at a MF (not BX) and have gotten HH outreach explicitly for Elliott and Viking in the last two months. My friend who as P72 did not get either outreach. Make what you will of this anecdote.
Find it really strange that 1-2 ppl screaming P72 have come to dominate this thread. BX PE is the better choice no matter if you're leaning public or private. Will give you looks at all the top SM HFs that you would *never* get as a MM analyst. Unless the MM monkey style really appeals to you don't know why you would go with P72. With that said, there is incredible retention within P72's Academy program, and BX PE is known for stiffing SAs on return offers. There's no wrong choice here but I really struggle to see anyone who doesn't (1) already know they want to do public over private and (2) already know they prefer MM to SM style choosing P72
current PE associate in a top PE program (Bx, Apollo), seeing the exits from PE programs and into lots of other roles (e.g. top HF, growth equity, etc.), I can say confidently there are very few roles / seats that can rival the resume bump, street cred, exit options you get having done a top PE program at a place like Blackstone
would strongly echo what lots of other folks have said, I haven’t heard of anyone going from a Point72 analyst program to Tiger or Sequoia, I bring up these two specific examples because they represent fairly different roles that would be very possible coming from Blackstone
Point72 creates a lot of commotion at the undergraduate level, can definitely see the attraction, when I was in school there was a lot of chatter about Point72 and Bridgewater but honestly, having worked now for many years and being in a good PE role with what I think is decent visibility into other funds in the industry I can now say those places don’t have the best rep. at the top places on the buy side whether it’s a top SM hedge fund or anything else
I don’t understand this thread. Does p72 control the internet or something? Does it have bots on WSO? If OP is a real person choosing between these roles ( which I doubt, because they’re so disparate, and anyone smart enough to get into BX PE knows to go there)…do people not see how it is morally wrong to constrain him?
you’ll get looks from MMs out of PE. Won’t get looks from PE out of MM. you’ll get looks from top SMs and LOs out of PE (which can be desirable places to be if you’re a public markets purist as everyone rooting for p72 seems to be - not everyone is a tech/beta-riding Tiger Global). But the biggest thing is that BX PE will teach you life and social skills. portco mgmt is not investing, it’s socializing. so is thriving at a MF PE (really a social club in guise of a C Corp). So you’ll get better at…well…general life.
further, there is no FUCKING way you know what you want to do with your life as an undergrad. And a pod shop is a specific ass thing.
go with Christ
Fully convinced this forum is full of Point72 academy kids trying to hype up the pod life similar to what RBC folks were doing in the banking forums