Point 72 vs Blackstone
I have an offer for point 72 academy and blackstone private equity. Which should I choose? Both are for summer 2024.
Mar 11, 2023Mar 11, 2023
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Comments (67)
Pm me
Blackstone and it is not even close. P72 is a great program and training but having BX PE as your first job opens every single door (including to every top SM HF as well as P72 in the future) while the reverse is not true
Disagree with this. BX PE (assuming your offer is for corporate pe, not tac opps/infra/re) only really opens up doors at Tiger Global (in terms of doors that aren't also opened at P72) which as you can see from last year's returns and senior people (like John Curtius, Alex Kimball, etc.) leaving is probably not the best place to be right now. P72 gives you a guaranteed top HF seat, enough name to easily go to MF PE if you decide HF isn't for you, or an easier shot at moving to a fund that does both (Elliott, Viking, etc.). Most people on this forum are students and just repeat what they hear about BX, but in this case, P72 seems the better option.
Not so sure that P72 is "enough name" to just get into MF PE. I have interned there and while it is a great program for public markets investing, thinking about how business work, and building operating models to reflect your thoughts its less of path headhunters and potentially PE firms are going to be looking for, especially since you have never run a deal process before. BX will open the door to any SM or MM and the work would be more applicable to activist or credit HFs as well if you aren't 100% sold on L/S
Point72 is going to be a training program and then hitting the desk ramping coverage on 50-100 names where you are just focused on one sector and trying to find winners and losers and/or doing pairs trades. I found it fairly interesting but not so sure I personally would want to do it for a career or even my first job if optionality is lower
lol ok intern
Point72 analysts don't go on to working at Elliot or Viking. What are you even saying? It's a multimanager and most MM guys stay in the space and don't go off to SMs.
It's also hilariously casual to say BX PE only opens doors to Tiger. Tiger has like one or two analyst seats open up every two years and that's competing with Warburg, Apollo, KKR, and other groups at BX.
Is everyone on this site a LARPer who read the most common threads on here? These spots are not that common to get.
those "top" single manager hedge funds are all down a median of 40% in the last 12 months… if you're judging "top" based on risk-adjusted performance, the top L/S hedge funds are Citadel, Millennium, and Point72.
Clearly the pod shops have figured out public equity investing. Like they are objectively better than the single managers. That doesn't necessarily make them better places to work though. The style of investing is extremely narrow and specialized and just isn't enjoyable for a lot of people (not making a judgment call either way) and there are a lot of people who would be happier at a SM or LO fund than a MM and vice versa.
If you are a true hardo that lives and breathes the market, P72. Otherwise, BX
Might be biased, analyst at top SM (Lone Pine/Coatue/Maverick) after doing MF PE analyst stint at BX/SL. Top HF jobs out of undergrad are on a class of their own, and P72 is up there with DE Shaw Fundamentals and the special sits places like Silver Point. While BX might give you more optionality at first glance, you're junior enough that even if you do decide public markets are not for you, you can easily transition to PE or others. While most people stay in public markets, the few that I know that switched to private at the junior level easily got FT analyst and associate gigs at BCP/KKR/Silver Lake, etc. Truth is public markets are much more interesting, PE is basically banking 2.0 and gets repetitive. With public markets you are continually evaluating the chess pieces, even at the junior level, while in MF PE (even if this forum glorifies it) you're basically crunching excels for an MD who has a "thesis" that won't get tested until 5-7 years down the line when the portco gets sold.
what MF stand for? MM is middle market, but MF..
For hedge funds MM stands for multimanager, not middle market…
MF for private equity firms refers to mega funds
Muther F*cking Fund. It just means a good fund where most of the people are tough guys. Like if tommy from good fellas turned his back on the family, teamed up with Gordon Gekko, and raised a $1bn fund.
MM can also be multi manager
MF is megafund
Mega Fund
Mega Fund
Mini Fund
MF = Mega Fund (KKR, BX, Apollo, H&F etc)
MF = Mega Fund (BX, KKR, Apollo, etc)
MF = Mega Fund (BX, KKR, Apollo, etc)
Mediocre fund. Used for T2 firms like BX
Evidence might be anecdotal, but know of someone who didn't get DE Shaw FT offer after interning, then went to BX PE as plan B after no HF wanted them. P72 is similar to DE Shaw, so unless your only concern is clout amongst your fellow college students/other interns that comes with BX name, would opt for HF job.
This might be a troll post, but if not, congrats on landing arguably the best HF and PE offers an undergraduate can get. I think choosing between these two comes down to your personality because honestly, these jobs are actually extremely different. "Private equity guys are preppy, hedge fund guys are scrappy" is a common saying here. Are you confident in your personality to navigate office politics/bureaucracy at Blackstone? Or are you more comfortable in your raw analytical/creative ability that is awarded much more in the hedge fund world?
It's true that Blackstone sets you up with more optionality and great exits to single manager hedge funds. But it's also worth noting the strategy that Point72 operates in (market neutral, multi manager) is set to be a winner at least in the near-term. If you're interested in hedge funds from the outset, why not join a top brand with rapidly growing AUM and the most respected training program in the industry? I've heard great things about the academy on here such as high return offer rate and relatively high career longevity.
So it comes down to you, not the firms. Do some introspection instead is my advice. Both Blackstone and Point72 can make you a millionaire if you're the right person for the job. But the preppy kid who banks on soft skills and smooth-talking ability would get absolutely slaughtered in a multi-manager pod, and the same could be said about a scrappy, introverted person in mega fund private equity.
If you want to work for a multi manager, Point 72 likely offers the best training/program out of college (Citadel seems to be building a program as well)
If you want to do PE, or move to a single manager, then BX PE will give you more optionality than any other job out of college. You're capable of going through the team pages at Tiger, D1, Pershing, Soroban, Elliot, etc... and I've never seen a multi manager analyst go to a fund like that. Most analysts at these large single managers have a large cap PE background.
But keep in mind multi managers are some of the best performing hedge funds right now and didn't lever up on tech like most tiger cubs did in 2021 - but other threads point out the fact that while the multi manager platforms are a good firm/product for LPs, that doesn't necessarily equal a good job for you since turnover is high and your seat is never safe.
Partly agree with this. True most SM investing teams are ex large cap PE people but main reason for that is that top performers at Multi Managers just don't leave - they're making so much $ that it doesn't make sense to leave. If they ever were to leave for a SM and play second fiddle to someone else, it would be a downgrade. This is especially true given how tied comp is to fund performance, and sms are underperforming heavily vs mms.
As to high turnover at Multi-Managers, I would say that if you look at recent years, turnover might actually be lower at top MMs (like P72, Millenium, Citadel) vs SMs on a % basis. Several peers got laid off recently at SMs (even top ones) vs MMs. If you show your analytical skills (which since you got both of these jobs, I assume are well developed) you will likely stay and carve out a great career in public investing (or have the optionality to change if you see it's not for you).
del.
Hey! I'm also in a similar situation and debating a point72 offer--dm me!
how do you already have BX? Aren't first rounds last/this week?
diversity I think? Someone at my school (supertarget) has an offer
OP might be troll post
It comes down to whether PE or HF is more interesting to you. I've worked in both, and PE is definitely more my speed, but that could be different for you. I wouldn't think about marginal prestige, because you can definitely land a good HF job from BX and apparently from the comments above, it seems a good PE job from a HF (although I haven't seen that personally). I found these to be very different roles that appeal to very different people, so just dig deep and think about what fits you, your strengths and your interests best
fucking diversity man… if a WSO thread is between two top offers its usually a diversity candidate or an actual genius
Strawberry guy above hit the nail on the head. The top HF jobs out of college are just in a league of their own. P72's academy program seems phenomenal and is not even comparable to BX's program if you want to be in public markets. If you want to do PE long term BX would obviously be better, but not sure why you would even want that (outlook in next 10 years looks really poor, tons of process work as a junior, less intellectually stimulating). And I would argue MM's are growing while SM's are dying off, but even then if you want SM you could move to a SM easily from P72. Would take P72 in a heartbeat if I were you, I'd kill to have that option.
Why do you say that SMs are dying off? Are themes favoring MMs? Would love to hear more about that.
crossover style, levered beta tech investing just doesn't work anymore. Or at least all the investments tiger cubs/similar firms made at the top are losing a ton of $$ right now. I wouldn't be surprise if a lot of the funds that are being created right now (ex PMs at viking, lone pine, tiger, matrix, altimeter etc. are all starting funds) are succesful when they ride the next tech wave up over the next 10ish years though. It's just nearly impossible for the incumbents (maverick, tiger, coatue, etc) to hit their high water mark any time in the forseeable future
saddest thing ive seen on this site. tigercub69 has yet to find out that tiger is down 60%. hate to break the news to you buddy
I did 2 MFPE internships and 1 internship at a top MMHF before deciding to go for MFPE full time.
My advice would be to go for BX. It'll just open more doors in the future and if you really hate it, you can join MLP/P72/Citadel after 1/2 years. MMHF are always hiring, and its easy going from MFPE to a MMHF. If you ever have a change of heart and want to do anything apart from stock picking, you will not be able to get a job in PE/VC as the skillset you learn at a HF is niche (especially at a market neutral fund). It'll also be difficult to go to SS/Distressed funds or any other jobs outside of finance.
For SMHF, they are a dying breed, but there will always be a few in the future and if you ever want to go for one of them, BX is the better choice overall. Some SMHF are starting to welcome the idea of hiring pod analysts, but you will have to grind to even get an interview. I know a few of the guys who transitioned from MMHF to a top SM and they all said it was painful to do so and lots of funds didn't even give them a chance.
One last thing to add, read up more about the P72 academy and your day to day at any MMHF. P72 academy is very theoretical (majority of time is spent in a classroom) and working at a MMHF is not what it seems from the outside. Very high stress, and the work you do isn't really that interesting as many people claim it is. Those claiming that working at a MMHF is amazing because its "intellectually stimulating, involves deep fundamental research etc" have probably never worked a day at a MM. You just cover 30-50 names in a certain sector and you need to know them in and out. When you are new, ramping up on your names is fun, but after that the job is just calling quarters and factors.
The entire point of working for a multi manager out of college is your career longevity at said MM increases significantly compared to regular analysts, since the firm probably drained close to a $1,000,000 into you just to train you. there's a stat somewhere that X% of academy analysts since 2015 at P72 are still with the firm and i remember it being very high.
I think it's 60%
That's not how these places work. Everyone and I mean everyone working there is just a commodity, nothing more and nothing less. Even if you are the greatest PM ever and have been killing it, 2 bad quarters and you are gone.
If you are a junior (regardless if you joined out of college or out of PE/IB/another HF), you aren't directly responsible for any P&L so what matters is the pod you are going to. I'd argue that going through the P72 programme and not knowing what pod you'll end up in after the academy is a huge risk compared to going from IB/PE since you can diligence the exact pod you'll join.
Some of these funds do allow juniors to interview internally in case the PM blows up, but eventually you will end up as an Analyst with some responsibility for P&L. If they drained 500,000 or 5 million into that Analyst, they will still fire you immediately if you perform badly. Being an academy graduate or ex intern will be much better for them if one of these kids succeeds, but in the end of the day performance rules all, regardless of what they previously spent on you/any internal goodwill you had.
This is why MMHF's are incredibly successful as a business model - they are amazing for upper management/founders/LP's/back office but a horrible place to work as a risk taking employee.
What's causing these SMHFs to die off?
Concentrated beta books/overly long tech or w/e. W the tide coming out this strategy is unlikely to be as profitable.
Agree that P72 Academy leans on theoretical but only for the first couple of weeks while you're getting training. I have several friends who went through it and they were integrated into the team very quickly.
I wouldn't say that HF is niche, that's a misconception a lot of people, especially juniors, have. The reason you don't see people going to other things after they join the HF industry and have been in it for a while is bc they would be taking a severe pay cut and likely doing less interesting work.
As someone who went MF PE -> SM HF (and is currently scared of the future with how SMs are performing) I think that MM out of undergrad (especially at P72) is the best way to go. You have the option to try public markets and can change to PE or something else if you don't like it. If you go to MF PE and realize you don't like it, you can switch to a SM but who knows where those will be in terms of performance (some may even close doors like Eton Park, Axon, etc) or be down substantially (like Tiger Global and others are rn). The expected value of starting a career at P72 is higher vs Blackstone.
The skills you learn at a MMHF are pretty niche. It is very different than what you would have learnt at a SM (which is more comparable to PE)
To your point about moving back to PE, i'd say this is pretty much impossible without an MBA if FT. The type of person and the skills needed at a MMHF is so different than what is needed in PE.
Lets put it this way, why should a PE fund hire someone as an Associate who started full time at P72/Citadel/MLP when they have never seen anything transactional in nature? They don't even know what an SPA is and most of the analysis they do is not applicable to PE. Working at a MMHF is not about deep fundamental research and all that jazz that you would do at a SM shop. All the job is calling quarters and factors correct which is irrelevant from a PE perspective. That's why I made the choice to start in PE instead, as I'll always be able to go to a MMHF or a SMHF with ease, but the reverse will not be possible unless you get an MBA (and even then it'll still be difficult). For other jobs outside of PE/HF world, PE sets you up much better and I don't think I need to explain why.
Both are great options. If you're unsure where you want to end up in your career, just pursue what leaves you with more options down the road. If not, it's basically a decision between public markets vs. private markets.
go p72 all the way, stay away from the deal grind. trust me on this
BX easily.
For what it's worth, the highest bonus I've ever seen posted in a comp thread on WSO was a hedge fund PM at a pod shop-$32 million for 2022
And for every case like this, there are hundreds of super smart analysts that top out at 6 figs and/or get canned
If you're solely set on HF, then Point72 might be better for you. However, if you're considering anything else or are not 100% set on HF, then Blackstone PE is definitely the way
@OP when is your deadline to decide?
What if you want top LO eventually? Is that option available from P72?
Why is this even a question? This is defo a troll. You already know the answer.
You're taking the biggest names of their respective industries and comparing them with each other.
If you want HF in the long run, do P72. If you want PE/ entrepreneurship, do BX
Comes down to whether you want to be an investor vs a businessman; if you want to be swashbuckling vs hardo intense nerd; if you want to close deals vs bet on names
no one that's been in the industry would call BX PE "swashbuckling"
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