Walking away from buyside after associate years
For those of you who decided to exit the industry (PE/HF), do you feel any remorse for doing so? Does the promise of better WLB today outweigh the benefits you'd see of staying on the path for a few more years given how quickly the comp scales? I know it's a deeply personal question but would welcome different perspectives as I explore my options.
My plan was to leave PE after my two-year associate stint, but ended up getting referred to a Corp. Dev. job in a niche industry I've been trying to break into for awhile... so took it after my first year bonus hit.
Have been in this role 8 months now (so would be about the time I'm leaving PE if I stayed for my second year), and in general haven't felt any regrets. Truthfully, there was a span of a week or two where I worked maybe 5 hours each and got hit with a 'what am I doing here' reset, but things picked up again shortly after and have returned to normal.
Yes, the pay cut is tough -- but if you are unsure if you want it now, you better be sure by the time you are a VP and have carry on the line. You are locked into that role for 5 years if you want to see carry dollars... so you really need to be sure.
Once I saw how much my VPs worked and their WLB wasn't any better than mine (and I saw how hard it was to get into top B Schools from my UMM firm), I was sure I didn't want to be in their place despite the comp. People can and will disagree on how much money / prestige means to them, but for me, it was not worth dedicating my entire life for a job that I didn't love.
I liked finance and am / was good at it, but the stress and requirement to always be on call made it hard to enjoy my life to the fullest. So, while I may be missing out on serious comp, it's nice to be in a place where I can plan things on the weekdays and take weekend trips pretty much at will. I live in a big but non-NYC / SF city so my comp is enough to max out 401k + backdoor Roth while being able to afford a nice apartment and my lifestyle. May not be able to retire at 45 but if I don't hate my job I may not feel the need to!
Hope this helps.
Offering a slight different opinion and experience from above!
Did a year and half as PE associate and then left early due to COVID / unique strategy opportunity in a unique industry. I just felt I may not have the chance again and it was something I wanted to try if I went to bschool as well.
Fast forward 2 years later - I enjoyed the job, built some great connections in the new industry, and loved the people honestly. However, I came to realize the limit of a corporate strategy role (tends to be more internal facing, hard to get real P&L responsibility, more politics in corporate in general) and actually really miss PE work despite the hours.
While I’m still young, I decided to give PE another shot, knowing the good and the bad. Since I didn’t finish the 2 year program and also didn’t go to bschool, I came back as a senior associate instead of VP (would at least be 1-2 years behind my cohort, but grateful that I could come back given the current market.)
Hard to tell if this is the right decision yet, especially under this macro environment…but no regrets that I tried other things and figured I wanted a role with more responsibility and greater growth trajectory in the long term. I would strongly recommend to stick through 2 years tho - it gives you more leverage when you want to come back after leaving the industry.
Definitely feel I’m a bit more mature now in terms of mindset compared to others who have only done banking / PE, but we’ll see how long I survive…(hours haven’t been too bad, but things are pretty slow now…I guess I’m also faster than when I was a first year.)
Ignore my anonymous title.
I did 2 years of BB banking, 2 years of UMM PE, and am coming up on 3 years in corporate strategy where I work fully remotely.
I really struggled with my decision to leave finance, I loved the work of investing and didn't mind pushing myself hard and working long hours but I really really struggled with the culture and hierarchy of the industry. It was really hard for me to handle having no control of my life, working with people who were condescending, arrogant, mean spirited, and shallow, and having to play politics to get ahead. After leaving PE, I've dealt with existential dread sometimes that I'm shortchanging myself because there is no big upside attached to my current job (no startup stock, no carry - just some options that could be a nice small return) and it's outside of the "big leagues" of wall street that my ego was so attached to. It's hard sometimes to see all your close friends making more money and I sometimes feel irresponsible for not being willing to sacrifice more time and energy for my future family. But, despite all these misgivings, I know for me this was the right decision.
I was really burned out at the end of my time in PE, I was getting constantly abused in a toxic culture, I had gained weight, my relationships (family, gf, friends) were suffering because I was always in a bad mood and tired and just not present (many of my friends in pe talk about feeling like your mind is still at the desk even when you're away from it). I wasn't happy at all, though it was hard for me to admit that because I thought my unhappiness was a lack of gratitude for my good fortune to be in PE or weakness. But eventually at the end of my two years, through mostly luck, I ended up in my current job rather than lateraling to another firm.
The new job I got was a lot flatter, the people were much nicer. It was an individual contributor role, so there wasn't anyone breathing down my neck and it was a lot less structured. Seniors here often ask me what I did over the weekend and if I had plans after work (since, unlike in finance, it's acceptable and encouraged to have personal time every day) and they completely respect my PTO (I get 5 weeks and can take off 2 weeks at a time if I wanted to). I make less money and the path to higher comp will be slower and longer. Being remote means that I get to travel a lot and visit and work from friends' places. I did a few international working holidays that were amazing memories. I got in incredible shape again and repaired a lot of my relationships that I neglected (both were a product of simply having more time and control over my schedule). A friend of mine pointed out that I smile a lot more now than I used to.
Work wise - It's fun going deep into one company (especially when you really believe in the value of the product like I do) and getting to be on the same team with everyone working toward the same goal - from customer service reps to the CEO. I don't mind doing the work I'm doing (strategy is sort of fluffy but it's fun if you like writing and thinking about big picture things) and I don't get the sunday scaries anymore because I know there are boundaries that will be respected. I do miss the diversity of topics you learn about in PE and I miss learning more about deal structures and finance. It took a while for me to accept that this was fundamentally a different job and that I had to evaluate it for its own merits and not compare it to what I used to do.
Leaving was the right decision for me, but it is really hard on the ego. You have to eventually accept that you're on a path that won't ever lead to you being filthy rich or "special" in any way. You have to admit that, perhaps for the first time in your life, you're prioritizing your well being ahead of your goals. You have to remove all the hustle culture / hyper masculine rhetoric that PE is filled with and accept that there is absolutely nothing wrong with not wanting to work in an abusive environment and that your ability to tolerate abuse is not reflective of your worth as a human being or your ambition or potential. You have to be okay with the fact that, at least in the short run, you will earn less than your peers who are still in finance.
Would I go back? I flirt with it all the time, especially when I read the news and feel scared about the state of the markets or when I get anxious and existential and insecure and feel like I "gave up" on myself for leaving. But in the end, I know that going back to an abusive environment is actually giving up on myself and my self worth. If you can find that magic PE gig that someone's best friend's buddy's cousin always seems to have (but no one has actually met the guy in real life) where they make $500K, work 9-7 with no weekends, and are partner track, then congratulations. For me, I'm not sure where I'm going or what I'll do in the long run but I know I have to do it in an environment that makes me feel respected and worthwhile.
Hope this helps.
Not all IB and PE firms are super toxic, why doesn’t everyone on here pretend that is standard?
If you found a firm that is the right culture for you, then that is awesome and sounds like you've got a great gig.
The overwhelming majority of my friends didn't find great gigs though - it takes a lot of intentionality and thoughtfulness in people management to keep inherently volatile jobs from becoming toxic when everyone is stressed, tired, and overwhelmed. Few PE or IB firms are that thoughtful about culture and people management. LMM and regional city roles seem to be better this way, but a lot of that is because the volume of deals is lower and, even then, there are still a lot of really toxic spots that you can stumble into. In the UMM and MF world, you'd really have to find the diamond in the rough to find a sustainable culture. If hierarchy, lack of control of your time, and lack of respect for personal and professional boundaries isn't something that sits well with you (it didn't for me personally after four years of really trying to make it work and faking it) then I'm not sure working in PE in any capacity is a great fit honestly given the nature of the job.
It sounds like OP is considering leaving the industry and WLB is something he's trying to justify to himself as being worth the financial / career tradeoffs. I would encourage him to recruit for BOTH finance and non finance roles if he's undecided. But I would tell him to be really thoughtful and strict about finding the right culture - if he can find a great gig like you've got, then that is great. If he can't (like me), then there's nothing wrong with deciding that what he wants for his life isn't likely to be satisfied in this industry and he should give himself permission to explore and seek it out in other industries. There is nothing wrong with taking the great skillset we all developed from years in this industry and applying it in a new setting that is more in-line with his values and that gives him space for other important parts of his life to flourish.
Glad this resonated. It’s always so tempting to think about going back and assuming in simple logic that getting more prestige and more money would solve underlying issues (for me at least) with needing external validation to feel worthwhile. The reality is those are deeper issues that more stress and more volatile hours won’t help me get closer to solving.
It is scary to not have forward visibility into where your career is going and it can be disheartening to not get social validation from your job anymore after working so hard to get to this point (no one I know socially cares or has any clue what I do all day and my co workers don’t even know or care that I used to work in PE). But, for me at least, this choice made actually living my life day to day a lot more sustainable and frankly a lot more fun. I’ve gotten to make some really incredible memories these past two years that I’ll never forget while making good money (even if it is less) and doing very different but still interesting enough work.
I do miss investing as a job and subject matter but I’m not ready to give up my newly found self respect and boundaries to get back in unless I find something really special where I can respect myself and my boundaries while doing it.
Hope you’ve been doing better since getting out too.
Glad you could relate to it. Being in our position can feel really isolating and vulnerable and almost no one will relate or empathize with how hard of a decision it was. To people who never went down this route, they see you still making good money and think you're entitled or ungrateful when you feel anxiety about your decision.
What people fail to realize is that what makes this hard isn't taking a pay cut but it is giving yourself permission to let go of what was supposed to be a "Golden Ticket" to a life of financial freedom, interesting work, and an identity as a "successful" person. We trained for years and got to the starting line of the Olympics, but when the gun went off and we did a few laps we realized that this isn't the experience we thought it would be and we don't want to be the person who does this forever and that winning gold comes with a big price to other parts of our life. It can be hard to balance being grateful for all you learned and the rewards you reaped (I certainly am) while giving yourself permission to decide you're done and to cut off the spigot of prestige and money.
Letting go of a dream you worked hard to actualize when you realize it isn't what you thought it would be or when it has crossed serious boundaries into other parts of your life is something few people our age have experienced. I remember being like all the young college kids on this site who are tunnel visioned and willing to make any sacrifice and work any amount of hours to "make it" and, hopefully, solve all my financial, personal, and self esteem problems along the way. After so many years of making sacrifices and being tunnel visioned, taking a look around and realizing the opportunity cost of that golden ticket has become too high is hard. It feels selfish and irresponsible to your future family who will one day depend on you and benefit from your sacrifices and your parents who sacrificed so much for you to be in this truly privileged position to walk away when you're still young and could still take more abuse and let other areas of your life continue to wither for just a few more years.
In the end, I think we're really lucky to have experienced what we did but now we're giving ourselves the greatest gift we can. We are prioritizing our well being over every goal, ambition, intellectual & academic interest, fantasy, and identity as a "successful" person and recognizing that there is no price high enough or reward great enough to give away your sense of self worth and self respect and boundaries.
Hope you've been doing better since getting out too.
Spent some time over MDW chatting with some of my former co-workers (and now close friends) and a topic came up that I thought I’d share here, if only because writing helps me clarify my own thoughts.
Do I regret going into finance and private equity?
The answer for me is no, but there are a lot of things I would have changed about how I approached and how emotionally invested I was in this career path.
First the pros: I actually learned how to model – my banking (BB coverage group) experience consisted of barely any technical reps and mostly was spent making pretty pictures on PowerPoint (which believe it or not is actually a hugely marketable skill once you leave finance and no one has any ability to express their ideas clearly in materials lol). In PE, I learned how to model a number of different types of scenarios and business models and I left the job feeling confident I could model almost any business. I developed more self confidence from being responsible for taking things from point a to b with limited oversight and instruction. I got more reps of speaking up and leading diligence calls and interacting with and, critically, pushing back on people older than me. I developed a framework for understanding and evaluating business models that I continue to rely upon every day in my current job. I made a large amount of money very quickly which will be the financial foundation for the rest of my life and gives me immense peace of mind. Because my salary was so high, I was in a good place to negotiate a high comp package when I left.
Now the cons: I did immense damage to my mental health, physical health, and my relationships. Going into finance, I imagined that working hard was like fighting 1:1 against a fire breathing dragon and being willing to forgo sleep and childish fun in the name of transcending my humanity (and insecurity) and becoming a “successful” person. I did not realize that acts of self-sacrifice and porous boundaries rarely only impact you and that more often than not they create externalities that hurt the people closest to you. Throughout my time in finance, I was so lost in my own shit and stress and anxiety that I didn’t have emotional bandwidth to care about anyone else. In my lobotomized existence, I skipped a sibling’s birthday (and never made it up to them) that happened during the middle of on-cycle recruiting, I stopped talking to my parents and sibling other than to occasionally emotional vomit to them and cause my mom and dad extreme sadness (while completely ignoring any problems that might be going on in their lives), I ignored my friends and my roommate (one of my best friends on earth) during the first few insane months of COVID when they needed human interaction and people to talk to because I was so deep in self-pity about a live deal, I emotionally vomited my anxiety and stress on my girlfriend and wasn’t emotional available for her, and I generally assumed my problems were more important than everyone else’s. I drove everyone away because of an inability to compartmentalize and be present and recognize the legitimacy of their problems and needs. Along the way, I gained significant weight and struggled to get out of bed every single morning for four years because I wanted to postpone the shitstorm of passive aggressive and neurotic panicked energy that was waiting for me at work.
The cons were personal failures of mine – a failure to compartmentalize, to put up boundaries that no amount of professional obligations were worth crossing, to be disciplined and go to sleep when I could and to work out regularly, to be empathetic and available to my friends and family. But it’s hard to say that these personal failures could be avoided when I looked around and everyone I knew in the job was making the same ones. If everyone was making the same failures then some portion of my failures had to be inherently structural within the career, a consequence of there only being 24 hours in the day and a culture where you were expected to be blindly willing to let everything but your performance on the job suffer. My selfish desire to pursue the very real rewards of this job came with, seemingly unavoidable, significant collateral damage to my friends and family and sense of self-worth.
How do I reconcile the harm that my lack of emotional availability and presence caused to those around me with the individual immense professional and financial benefits that I reaped? How do I make sense of something that did so much good for me at the expense of myself and those who I had obligations to? My personal conclusion from reflecting on this is that the benefits I derived from this career path were IN SPITE of how I was treated not BECAUSE of how I was treated. Had I had firmer boundaries that were respected and worked in an environment where there was a baseline of respect that was expected and enforced, I think I would have gotten far more learning and growth out of the job and I would have added considerably more value for my employer. The self-destructive anxiety riddled culture of this industry destroys the value of its human capital instead of enhancing it.
You may be reading this and thinking that I’m being too self-critical on the costs of this career to those around you. And you’d be justified in saying that, because ultimately what boundaries you choose to set and how much attention and emotional capacity you think your friends and family deserve is a personal decision. You may be like one of my VPs, who decided that ignoring his newborn and relying on his wife and in-laws to raise him during the first few weeks of his life (because taking paternity leave during the middle of a deal was inappropriate) isn’t damaging to your partner or child at all. You may be like my other VP, who decided that seeing his wife and kids 30 minutes a day during the week is more than enough quality time spent with them. Or you may be like another Partner, who thought coming into the office during the pandemic when he had a child with a pre-existing condition at home was justifiable. It’s ultimately up to you to decide what you owe the other people in your life and how much they should have to be effected to enable your “sacrifices” for this career.
For me personally, over the last two years I have found that I was able to repair relationships with my girlfriend, family, and friends by making time and priority to be available for them and to try and listen to them more than I talked (I fail at this all the time still). My dad and my mom (both in their 60s) have childhood best friends who they talk to almost every day. Those relationships mean the world to them and are an antidote to loneliness in old age. I hope that the choices I have made since leaving about where I set my boundaries and the sacrifices I’m willing to make (and ask of others) will lead me to having relationships like theirs one day.
From the day I entered this industry as a 22-year-old, I was enchanted by stories glorifying how senior people failed to enforce boundaries in their own lives in a romanticized crucible to achieve “success” and this narrative was bolstered by an incomparable economic reward system and a personal-worth rating system (top bucket / bottom bucket, “Rockstar” analysts) that substantiated everything that was said. I traded time and relationships with people who cared about me for the approval of anxiety riddled middle-aged men who were “winners” in the game of “success” and to appear perfect in the eyes of people who I felt like I had to keep up with, but who didn’t care about me.
Coming of age in this weird industry, where the highs are short and cynical and never satiating and the lows are protracted and repressed, will change everyone differently. My perspective is only my perspective and everyone will have to decide what their own truth is and where their own boundaries lie for themselves.
100% agree. I love your post and you pretty much summarized most of what I feel about PE.
One thing that's preventing me from leaving PE though is the fact that I'm worried about what the future will bring and wonder if these high paying jobs are here to stay.
If I know I could go to a cushy CorpDev job that will last me for the next 20+ years of my life, I'd take that in a heartbeat - but with AI and all these technological advancements, I'm not entirely sure if the cushy careers today are here to stay. From that perspective, you'd want to accelerate your earnings so you get to a more comfortable place if and when they decide your career is obsolete/replaced by machines.
Maybe I'm just paranoid...
Glad to hear you liked the post and appreciate you taking the time to read it and sharing your perspective as well.
I’ve definitely had that same thought a bunch of times – given how uncertain the world is and how I’m young now (so there aren’t any immediate tradeoffs that are manifesting themselves immediately in front of my eyes – no chronic health conditions yet and I don’t have kids), doesn’t it make sense for me to optimize for collecting as much cash as possible as a hedge against the inherent uncertainty and volatility of human existence?
For me personally, I’ve made peace with that for a few reasons:
Your concerns are completely valid. The value of making more money when you’re young so it can compound for longer is mathematically indisputable, unlike the value of relationships, health, and experiences which are inherently subjective. There are a lot of scary changes in the world and I don’t think anyone knows what the future will hold and money feels like the ultimate shield against uncertainty. What I will say though is that every year since graduating I’ve had people I know my age die from everything from suicide to freak accidents to health problems. The snuck premise in planning your life around compounding is that you will see it through to the end, which isn’t guaranteed. In the end, for me, I want to find balance between planning for the future and living in the moment in case the future doesn’t come. What that balance looks like and when you choose to start looking for it will be different for everyone though.
This thread is like therapy
This anonymous poster deserves a “mentor” title; I’ve very rarely read or heard something so articulate, thought provoking, therapeutic, and genuine in our crazy world.
I have the same level of experience, albeit still stuck in the PE self worth side where my entire value as a human being is tied to having a prestigious job that can make me millions…which still requires 10 years…is not guaranteed…and where I comp myself to more successful peers on a daily basis…yet the vast sea of of knowledge and introspection between us is legitimately astonishing (and borderline concerning lol).
Man. Good stuff in here.
I turned down a $300K PE job after my 2 years as an associate to take a corp dev job making a bit more than what I made as an analyst. I wrote a post about this a few months ago ("Saying Goodbye To Finance?"). I was really scared I had made the wrong decision at first, but I'm very happy with it.
Reasons I like my new job:
Why I was nervous to leave finance:
So no, I don't regret my choice at all. The tradeoffs have been worth it to me so far, and I'm glad I was able to put aside my worries and concerns to make the decision that was best for me. That being said, it is a very personal decision. Some of my friends are getting promoted at their banks/funds and genuinely enjoy it. They wouldn't be happy taking a giant paycut to sit on calls with the APAC HR team to discuss employee integration at 7am – even if it meant they would turn their computer off every weekend.
You have to do what's right for you and not what you think you should do or what other people are saying is right for you.
Addendum: Also, I realized no one knows what we do or cares (fair enough!). My family and friends think my new job is cooler because they've heard of the company and my title has 'Global' in it. I was trying to mentally d**k measure with a bunch of other guys also doing jobs no one understood or cared to understand.