What is a realistic threshold for F-You money for most IB/PE professionals who want to retire early?
Fellow monkeys,
I took the well trodden path of HYPSW -> 3 yrs IBD -> 3 yrs PE and now coming up to my 3rd year in GE (long story short, left PE due to not willing to commit to an MBA program which will waste 2 years of my time as opposed to actually making some money), and have just been getting increasingly tired recently.
Part of it is the disillusionment from growth investing, which was completely different (and selling castles in the air) from my prior experience in PE and IBD, and part of it is just me realizing that the work I'm doing isn't all that fascinating after 8-9 years.
I still find some enjoyment working on deals and learning about new industries, but to be honest, I'm at the stage in my life that I really just want to spend more time with family if at all possible.
Curious to hear what most people's idea of F-You money is in this economy, and timeline for most people to get there.
Personally, I'm not a big spender and I probably would be OK with $120k per annum for the rest of my life. The issue is just adjusting for inflation. Back of the envelope math working backwards and assuming you get 5% returns per annum and 2% inflation... taking 120k/0.03, you'd arrive at c. $4m (more needed if you take into account taxes).
$X if you’re single, $10X if you have a wife.
0.7x if your wife makes more than you
My wife is way cheaper than me and my spending is a lot more reasonable now tbh haha.
$100 million
You honestly have the background to do whatever you want. Maybe a low stress Corp Dev / Startup gig? I think VC tends to have better WLB if you want to stay on the investing side.
Looking back on your career, do you have any regrets going the path you did vs going the startup / corporate / public sector economic research path? Would be interested to hear if your friends who went different paths are on a comparable earnings / career growth path as you.
Well.. depends on if you look at it from experience or $ perspective.
If you just want $, then yes, definitely have some regrets. If I founded a startup pre-COVID and managed to raise a round during COVID, I would've probably easily hit my target already.
I've seen so many founders of questionable caliber (i.e., only having 3-4 years experience in a startup prior to being a founder), made some bullshit startup that managed to get some early traction, did a secondary transaction to Tiger in 2020-2021 at ridiculous valuations and probably got out with $3m+ liquid already, not to mention the $1m salary they pay themselves yearly as a "founder".
And the funny thing is, when their startup fails and investors demand them to return capital, they pay themselves another $5m on the way out (similar to Wework). It's completely ridiculous. So in hindsight, if I could do it all over again, I would 100% be a founder, huge payday whether my startup succeeds or not.
In general, I don't think working for a startup is worth it unless you're employee number 5 or something.
Does this actually happen lmfao? I’ve always felt so much of start ups feels like a cyclical pyramid scheme-esque situation where every makes each other richer at the expense of those on the outside
I’ve done PE + HF for a total of 15 years now and NW just around $20m. I’ve felt comfortable to retire when I crossed $10-$15m. Now I’m just trying to get to $30-$50m so I can have impact with my personal capital when I retire. But for my lifestyle I already have more than enough.
Dang huge dubs. Curious personally if and when you got married and had kids. How was balancing it if relevant
Got married early and have two kids. Wife takes care of kids during the week. Weekends are family time.
Absolutely worth discussing with an experienced planner and especially a tax specialist, but start here.
- Which city/state do you want to live in?
- Primary Residence with or without HOA?
- Housekeeper? Gardener? Doorman?
- How many pets?
- How many kids?
- Public schools or private schools?
- Tutoring? Travel sports? Music education? Clubs?
- How many vacations per year? What are the next ten destinations on your list?
- Any pre-existing medical conditions? Any bad genetics that may pop up?
- Personal training? Country club? Hobbies?
- Single income? Dual income?
- Does the amount of money currently in your emergency fund stress you out because it’s not enough?
Go deep. It will help. Learned about this while interning at BAML wealth management.
Work backwards from a) your annual lifestyle + margin of safety, b) an assumption that you can withdraw 4% in perpetuity without drawing down an investment account in a real basis (i.e. your investment income has to both offset inflation plus that withdrawal rate), and c) how much you can make doing something you actually enjoy (whether that's 5 hours a week or 50 is up to you).
I could live a very comfortable life outside of NYC / SF on about $100k after tax for myself therefore $2.5mm would be a reasonable target. However I plan on getting married and having kids therefore the number is more like $200-250k so I would need $4-5mm. However, I also wouldn't hate doing something like coaching high school golf while teaching US history which could realistically pay me $75-100k per year in which case I'm back down to $2-3mm. Then there's a question of whether my wife could provide some income or assets to the equation as well.
I'm 31 and coming up on $1mm liquid and am thinking about these things a lot... 2-3 more years of putting away $300k+ and my assets compounding and I may be there...
Agree with your math, but hard to leave a job that you grinded hard to get to the mid-levels. That’s why you rarely see people leave the industry altogether in mid-30s / early-40s. Your goal posts change as you move up the ranks
Very similar to the way I'm thinking also. I don't plan to stay in a high COL city if I don't work in PE/finance anymore.
Currently thinking of maybe going back to academia or teaching once I hit the target. It's not like I'd quit and then linger at home 24/7, I'd just like a job where I have more control over my free time.
In a dual income household $10-$15M of cash or private investments excluding carry should be reasonably doable if you don’t leave or fall off during that period. If you count carry and all that - $15-20M at 40.
The thing about the job though is that it in a way gets ‘easier’ and comp is higher the more senior you are. So let’s say NW is $15M at 40. Dual income another 5 years will likely double that to $30M+.
realistically my number is $6. Thats $200k a year at a 3% withdraw rate (very very conservative).
But the job also becomes weird more “fun” after you exceed that because you kind of are just doing it for fun and intellectual stimulation at that point…
I'm only a prospect but I've done a lot of research on this as I'm interested in FatFIRE - I have a similar target income level to you, and my number comes out to c. $5m (assuming I get there between 35-40). Highly suggest you play around with ficalc.app - tells you exactly how much you'll need and you can control lots of variables
Are you in PE or GE? Curious why you’re disillusioned from GE
Was previously in large cap buyout PE, now in GE. The DD process and investment rationale for making deals in GE is vastly different from what I've been taught in IBD and PE (i.e., requires huge leaps of faith). And the recklessness of investing in GE for questionable founders in 2020-2022 just made me lose faith in it. That could just be me though.
Probabaly 20-25m I need to blow 700-800k pa incl imputed rent
I think by the time you get to MD, your cost of living is so high that you can prob never leave. There's a reason a lot of Partners take loans against their carry
This is why it's critical to avoid spend-creep - and fortunately something totally within your control.
I think lifestyle inflation is over-rated / and over-estimated. I honestly don't know any PE partners that is exactly balling out on PJs. Most are living in Darien/Greenwich/Bronxville/Westchester with two kids two cars and just enjoying life.
Lifestyle inflation inflation
Your typical lifestyle in those suburbs is quite a bit more expensive than you think
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