When to call PE recruiting quits?
I'm currently an analyst at a LMM PE firm. My role will be disappearing this Summer and I will not be asked to continue.
I’ve been having trouble landing an associate position at another firm. I’ve made introductions with all the major recruiters and do get shown some decent opportunities via email. However, after I respond and express interest, I almost never get an actual interview with the firm. I’ve had 5 phone interviews over the past 5 months. When I do get an actual interview, it’s quite difficult trying to cover up that my experience has been sourcing focused and I haven’t gotten much deal exposure. I absolutely do not want to step into another sourcing focused role.
Given the current Corona Virus situation and the fact I only have a few months left till my current role disappears, I’m wondering when I admit this isn’t working and start going for other types of jobs. I have an offer for an FP&A job and I'm wondering if I should take it. If I were to go the FP&A route, this job would be a great option. I’d rather stay in PE though.
I’d value any feedback from the community on what you would do in my situation and how to go about the job search moving forward. Also, any input on how to position to the recruiters that my job will be disappearing this summer, or should I not say anything at all?
@CompBanker" @APAE" @Marcus_Halberstram"
Tagging you guys as I’ve always found your posts/comments to be incredible informative and would really value your perspective here.
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Beg the firm to let you stay on a month by month basis. Know a guy at a large cap that got to do that. Given the situation they should be willing if they like you even a bit. Should buy you a few months to keep looking.
Based on what you've shared, it would seem to me that you made a real attempt at securing another PE job and ultimately were unsuccessful. With the combination of the Coronavirus and the fact that you've had such limited success even getting / converting interviews, I suspect that buying yourself more time is not going to be the best path forward. A lot of hiring has been put on hold or delayed, making matters a lot worse. If you are interested in the FP&A job, which I hope you are considering you went through the entire application/interview process, I strongly suggest you consider taking it. Assuming you're still interested in PE, you could absolutely apply to business school and craft a story to PE firms as to why you left PE to try working in industry, but ultimately decided that PE is the place you really want to be. Alternatively, investment banks would probably love your background and you could try the banking route post-MBA to get deal experience and then ultimately try to return to PE at that point.
It isn't a slam dunk but I'd say it isn't a long shot either.
Thanks for taking the time to respond! Definitely appreciate you offering some outside perspective.
Logically, everything you've said makes sense. I think part of my hesitancy to call PE recruiting quits is that it always feels like I haven't done enough. Maybe if I start an aggressive cold emailing campaign, maybe if I practice my deal walk through's more, maybe if I do X, etc. I still feel like I haven't left it all on the field so to speak.
It is a totally fair point, but you also need to ask yourself if taking those steps would make a difference. If you described your experience as having come really close to securing a couple jobs but always losing out to another candidate, I'd say you're close and just need a lucky break. It doesn't seem like this is the case. Even if you had 5-10 more interviews lined up, you may not be able to convert. If I'm interpreting this correctly, I think you're going to need to take some time to refine your recruiting approach and interviewing.
With the opportunities you’re being shown, how close are they to your firm’s focus area / strategy?
You say you do a lot of sourcing... you could put those skills to work and probably find at least 5-10 closely competitive firms who would be very interested in speaking. If anything, the time you spent on sourcing becomes more of an asset because you immediately can bring relationships / deal flow that are applicable to them as well.
Have you thought about applying to a top-tier MBA? You're young enough so that the opportunity costs are not too expensive, and with your experience transitioning to a post-MBA PE role is doable. Also give you some time for the job market to stabilize. Only downside is that you only have 2 years (?) of experience, while the avg is 4-5 yrs at top schools.
I assumed, possibly incorrectly, that getting into a top tier MBA with only two years of experience would be impossible. Is that not the case?
Also I'm not sure timing would work out at this point given my role will be disappearing this summer.
Just so I understand, so you have phone interviews with recruiters and then it fizzles out? Or they get you in front of opportunities and you do a phone interview with the actual PE firm, and it doesn’t progress beyond that?
Your resume/background are clearly enough to get you a look, but your execution is off. Nothing you can’t correct through interview practice and coaching. That said, the Coronavirus disruption plus the fact that you’ll be out of a job in just 2-3 months is challenging. Ideally, you should have figured out that your interview approach was off, and fixed it after the 1st/2nd time a lead went dead on you.
Any chance you can convince your current employer to keep you on (even on a notional comp basis) just to ease the hard stop pressure? It’s easier to make sure you’re making the right decision when you have a bit more of a luxury of time.
Thanks for taking the time to reply. The scenario I've encountered most often is that a recruiter will email me about an opportunity, I'll respond and say I'm interested, they say thanks and I never hear anything in regards to that opportunity again. There have been about 5 times over the past 5 months where they've actually set up a phone interview with the PE firm. Given how few phone interviews I've secured over such a long time period, it seems that the recruiters are not pushing my name forward in addition to the fact that my execution on the actual phone interviews is off.
I may be able to convince my employer to keep me on a bit longer although as CompBanker mentioned I'm questioning if it would even matter. Given the sourcing focused nature of my experience, the interviews kind of feel like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. That being said I've never been one to quit and so the idea that I may need to cut my losses and pivot is extremely painful. Especially since it feels like if I leave PE my chances of getting back in are even slimmer.
They're either sending over your resume and the fund doesn't want to interview you, or not sending it over. Since your back is against the wall, you should just ask the headhunter at this point which it is. It's not unusual to have this lengthy of a process (took me over a year of interviewing and plenty of what you've described) but you don't have the luxury of time and so need to find out what the issue is now.
The 5 calls you've had are on you - your foot was in the door, but you didn't close. You've identified that your sourcing work isn't helpful, so figure out how to highlight something else that you've done instead of tell them exactly what you've been doing. It's like resume writing - it should technically be the truth, but something that if your manager read, would look at you and say "...really?" Well yes obviously it's embellished a little bit but it's not dishonest and that's par for the course to get into hyper-competitive roles.
For your benefit, the way recruiting works coming out of one of these head hunters is this.... PE firms gives the head hunter a mandate. The head hunter turns their candidate sourcing machine on (including sending email blasts), and comes up with a list of candidates that would be "qualified". They assemble this into a resume book and send it to the VP or Principal running point on the search. In addition to a resume book, there's usually also a spreadsheet summary of candidates and a few pertinent datapoints. Name, current firm, group/sector focus, prior job, UG, and maybe a comment section. On that spreadsheet, the recruiter will usually separate what they deem as Tier 1 candidates and Tier 2. Tier 1 usually equates to higher pedigree, and more of what the PE firm said is important to them. Tier 2 slightly off the run, but still servicable. The recruiter will also will highlight some rows of candidates they would recommend brining in for a R1 in a first pass and in the body of the email/voice over on the call will flag next steps and suggested pool of R1 candidates. The VP/Principal will usually skim the list and resume book, and maybe give the highlighted candidates a bit more attention/benefit of the doubt. They'll go back to the recruiter with a list of R1 candiadtes.
Now let's get to how you fit in. Getting in-bounds from recruiters, expressing interest, and never hearing back is totally normal. There's things you can do to improve your yield. You need to be positioning yourself to be in that Tier 1 bucket, and to be a highlighted row where the recruiter is recommending you're in the first pass interviewee cohort. You do this by selling the recruiter hard, by tailoring your resume and your pitch specifically for the opportunity... and ideally nail it by figuring out the hiring firm and their particular predilections before you even get that intel from the recruiter, so you have the answers to the test.
What is a bit odd with what you've said is that you've only gotten phone interviews, not one in-person interview -- is that right? That seems like a non-commital lets see if this kid isn't a waste of time kicking of the tires. You need to figure out why this is and remedy it ASAP.
All of that aside, even when you get a phone interview you're not converting to the next round, so obviously doing something wrong. Either you can figure it out, correct course, and execute at a higher level such that you'll have a successful outcome. Or you won't be able to do those things.
My personal experience was that I got a ton of No's, and I kept course correcting until my execution was like the scene in the Matrix when Neo finally sees the world for what it is and bends reality. So my world view is to never give up. The output is a function of the input. If you don't get the desired output, it's not a reflection on you, it's a reflection on that particular set of inputs you fed into that experience. Change the inputs next time, and you'll get a different output.
So this whole game is just a matter of adjusting the recipe to be less of this and more of that until you finally get it right. This assumes you have the perceptiveness to pick-up on what flavors are off, and what you need to add/subtract to get the recipe right.
For me, that process took a number of years, and tons of rejection and deep introspection, I also had the benefit of a job without a hardstop. No one can answer the "should I give up on X, for Y" except for you. It comes down to your grit/tenacity, your abilty, and your luck.
Success is the ability to move from one failure to another without loss of enthusiasm. - Winston Churchill
I do not think that there is any other quality so essential to success of any kind as the quality of perseverance. It overcomes almost everything, even nature. - John D Rockefeller
Have you tried your luck directly reaching out to more sourcing heavy LBO shops and/or growth equity shops that view sourcing as a larger part of the Associate's responsibilities?
Alternatively, I've seen some folks go into Ops roles at their PE firm's portcos to get some "hands on experience" before jumping back into PE as senior associates or VPs (admitted the ones jumping back into VP roles had 3-4 years of PE experience prior), particularly Ops roles that somehow influences growth (e.g., M&A, corp strategy, sales and marketing).
Feel free to shoot me a PM if you want to run through your background / approach in more detail to flesh out some of the holes/weaknesses.
Quitting is for quitters
Dude, seriously? You made it into PE and you're asking if you should call it quits because you aren't having luck getting other people to make an introduction for you? I think the answer here lies on you.
Sorry for sounding a bit forward or brash here, but tough love is probably the only medicine you need here. You haven't mentioned once that you directly even attempted to network or reach out to ANY firm directly. You literally are taking the easiest path possible, not getting any bites, and ASKING PEOPLE IF YOU SHOULD QUIT? Honestly? You should if this is your attitude.
Go ahead and spend even a minute of time on these forums to see and read responses of kids hustling and working their way into banking from non-targets and the strain it takes to make it. I have a feeling your attitude will change and you will solve your own problem once you realize how silly of a question this is. The answer always seems to work out as expected for those who want it enough vs. those who aren't sure what they even want in the first place. You "want" PE. But do you actually?
You're post is way off the mark and shows you likely have a limited knowledge base about how the industry actually functions.
I agree with the method of trying to buy a bit more time from your shop and keep grinding. It is a tough time right now, so any more time you can buy to either A) look into other non-PE opportunities or B) Keep aiming for PE, would be great. If you have been doing a solid job, staying on seems like a reasonable request given the current environment.
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