I'm three years into my career doing Loan Asset Management at a top firm, and I'm happy. The salary is great (6 figs+ plus 25-35% bonus), my team is cool, my boss is the man, and I have a great work-life balance with practically no commute. But somehow, I'm not satisfied, and I'm just kinda bored. I'm learning a lot, but I'm not incredibly interested in the work I'm doing, although I do find it somewhat interesting. Our group is poised to be one of the busier groups as loans begin to default and CMBS deals start to pick up (I also do UWing on new securitizations), so a part of me thinks maybe I should just wait for this financial storm to pass and figure out what I want to do. Separately, everyone tells me I'm extremely personable and would excel in a more client-facing role which leads me to think about Brokerage, which I think has so many cons, and think if I move up the corporate ladder there will be great opportunities.
Does anyone ever have these feelings? And what are some jobs that would be more client-facing and relationship-oriented?
Probably not the best time to move into brokerage to be honest. Also, there will probably be plenty of lessons to be learned on the loan workout side so that if you do make the transition into brokerage later you will be very well educated in some more esoteric areas of lending/mortgage brokerage.
I have to be honest, I'm still young in the industry but brokerage is not the way to go. At small middle markets shops you're throwing shit at the wall and hoping to get ok deals through in secondary and tertiary markets done (NYC based firms) and if you do land something in NYC it's not an exclusive and you get lucky to close (look at Besen, KSR, etc). Even at large firms, top teams you get screwed on fee or have to split it 10 different ways. The three teams I can think of that have insane deal flow are Dustin Solley at Newmark, Stacom at CBRE, and Appel at W&D. Other than those and even at those teams things dry up and it's feast or famine. Joining those teams you aren't given anything and have to produce.
You have a solid, steady paying job right now. It makes no sense to leave that to go into brokerage even at one of these top teams to work on commission in the highest interest rate environment we've seen in 20+ years. Not to be rude, but even top guys in NYC at big firms (Meridian, Newmark, JLL, Cushman) may make $250k - $500k a year and obviously more but it is very deal and market dependent. A guy at one of these firms bragged to me he's doing well and guys who used to work for him went out on their own and he invested $50k with them. When he said that I thought what, that's it you're insert high title (SMD, SVP, etc with 20 year track record) on a top 10 team in the city that regularly gets ranked and talked about on the news. I've also had brokers I know in the middle market space again MD, SVP, etc brokers reach out and ask for $5-10k again after a 20-year record for bs reasons due to hold them over.
It is very feast or famine wherever you are and this is insight from the NYC market, which I would think has brokers doing some of the most volume benefiting from working in NYC.
Edit: Read stories on Massey Knakal and the two broker behind it. Bob is arguably the #1 middle markets broker in the city and even when he had his firm with 1-200 employees they faced bankruptcy many times even after being well known. Look at B6 now, MKs predecessor there were rumors here they missed payroll and that is again with many 20+ year veterans who have a territory system for deals.
You have a reasonable perspective but your comp numbers are way off. Obviously, brokerage comp is as volatile as it gets, but there are guys at my firm in our Hartford office that will W2 over $1M this year - and are in that range most years. The leaders on our NYC capital markets team typically bring home between $1-3M each year. There’s a half dozen guys in my office who you’ve never heard of that do over $1M most years. The “top dogs” in my market at the biggest shops probably bring home at least $5M+ most years, and this isn’t NYC.
I say this because while I’m at a name brand, we’re not the biggest brand and there are countless brokers across our firm - leasing and cap markets - that do wayyy better than $250-$500K, consistently.
Not to say there aren’t countless brokers that make shit money, but don’t think the only path to serious money in brokerage is being on a top 3 capital markets team in NYC. It just isn’t true.
You should do whatever you think will give you the skillset to accomplish your longterm goals in the industry. If you want to strike out on your own, you’re better off staying on the principal side. That said, you can do extremely well in brokerage and you do not need to be on the “celebrity” NYC teams to do so.
Collier's, got it! :)
This was my first thought. You are off on comp.
Also - for some reason investment sales (selling CRE) and debt and equity brokerage / capital markets are looped together in “brokerage” comments.
Investment sales is feast or famine and lots of people who do not make any money.
I find that debt and equity advisory is far more consistent. Most are able to earn mid 6 figures and smart structured finance brokers are $7-900k (consistently) with $1-3mm relatively easily achievable. A TON of d/e brokers did very well last year, nationwide, placing debt fund debt.
This refers to non-recourse, construction, bridge, high LTV/LTC debt fund and workout financing — not placing low LTV agency debt for your firms premier clients. I have no idea how much those guys make.
I'm not really off on comp, they can make $3mm one year, $1mm the next or less. It's very volatile and all about new sales. There's not guaranteeing any of the guys in your office will make that consistently for 3-4 years except that an owner wants to sell. It's very volatile and majority of pay can hang on one sale for the year.
Bump on this, curious to hear folks thoughts.
My thought is that your job doesn't need to be something you are passionate about. It's great to do something you love, but for the most part I strongly believe that tying your career to the things that bring you joy and meaning is silly and quite dangerous.
OP makes a huge amount of money, works with people he likes, has a good boss, and isn't running himself to the bone in terms of hours worked. That's the dream! Instead of trying to find meaning and validation through his career, perhaps he should be finding a hobby or passion to invest himself in in his off hours.
If you love what you do and can't wait to get out of bed and into the office every morning, that's amazing! But that shouldn't be considered a prerequisite for staying in a job, and I think far too many people talk themselves out of a good situation simply because they don't feel like they're passionate about what they do. That's a trap. Don't hate what you do, but remember that the things that make life worth living usually don't come as part of your benefits package...
Extremely fair point, but I think what he’s asking is different. Having exceptional interpersonal/soft skills, a high EQ, and a untapped social battery is rare for a lot of 20 year olds these days in the social media TikTok era. He probably feels gutted on the inside staring at a bunch of numbers on a screen for 10 hours a day, been there. He would probably benefit from hearing how can he leverage those skills/character traits into a different role within the industry.
I’m sure half the people on this forum are passionate, and maybe even good at, golfing and gambling. But we all know we ought to not quit our jobs for either things lol.
This might be an interesting take- if you want to be in a salesy role, start networking/cold calling as hard as you can outside of work and source an off-market deal. If you find a good enough deal, put it under contract, then call up every operator who might be interested in actually buying it. I did this with a handful of development projects when I was an analyst, and it gave me the momentum I needed to start my own shop.
The thing nobody tells you about brokerage is that it is soul crushing. When you’re starting out you just get crushed, nobody wants to talk to you, it is 99 no’s for a single yes and that yes may not close, will try to chop your fee down, etc. If by some miracle you work for someone who actually mentors you or passes down business, you’re still going to be splitting those fees until that person dies (nobody ever retires in brokerage). The decision makers in CRE are all old white guys, and their trusted advisors are their peers. And even then everyone in the deal hates you including and most especially your client who hates paying you. And the attorneys who make 10% as much for way more work. And the back office drones who can fuck up your deal 1,000 different ways.
I think this is the pessimistic take. If you work at a boiler room shop, then ya, it’s brutal. But those are shitty jobs anyway and not the way the bigger firms operate.
BD is indeed a grind but it’s worth it once you get traction. Way better than just being a servicer on a big team. And having a mentor/good teammate isn’t a “miracle”. It’s the Marcus and Millichap type shops that just throw you to the wolves to see if you can survive. None of the stronger firms work that way.
Yeah worked for more of a boiler room and it was like this - calls, boss was not a mentor, and our reputation was terrible. Was very hard to get traction and all offers I got were off market and way off the ask. Never got a deal done in 2 years, hated it after year 1 and tried to leave but even that was tough. Be careful where you choose to go.
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