Agressive Direct Boss - Does This Change and Can You Build a Relationship?
Curious if any of you have worked for direct bosses that were very aggressive and if over time you built good relationships with them? Also curious if it's a small firm (1 VP, you working directly for the Principal, and one other Principal) it's inappropriate to ask what the culture is like and if they're open to getting drinks during the week to get to know the guys you're working with?
Where I am now even some of the younger guys that have been there for a few years the principals have no respect for them, I'm assuming this can be the case and can be different. Seems there will always be a separation between junior and senior employees and thus the trying to get drinks with everyone may not be the most appropriate or welcome even if they do curse at you and pull an aggressive stance in interviews (obviously not the norm and probably a lack of respect which could change over time).
“What’s the culture like?” is only an appropriate question when you’re interviewing, not when you’re already at the company.
Don’t ask senior people out for drinks. Just don’t.
Work hard and maybe they will respect you. But asking them out for drinks will prob just annoy them.
It's comments like these that make me glad I didn't go into finance.
This is probably one of the most garbage comments I've ever read on WSO. I'll chime in, both from personal experience and what I have seen colleagues go through:
Aggressive bosses will always be aggressive in nature. There may be instances / certain times where they are pleasant to work with, however their innate personality will come out sooner or later. If they are aggressive in nature, they likely are used to being that way and for them to be nice takes active effort / is harder. From an employee perspective, I have dealt with aggressive bosses before. Super hard to foster relationships with them because of their inherent personality. This doesn't change from employee to employee - those aggressive bosses will be aggressive towards everyone, regardless of the work quality or quantity you are able to produce.
Source: first aggressive boss was required to attend anger management classes by my previous firm, after multiple instances of employee harassment.
So the 22 year old first year analyst should ask his disgruntled 45 year old boss out for drinks?
Don’t disagree with anything you said but you’re ignoring the part where I gave sound advice. If you get dinner or drinks with a senior person it will be because he/she invites you. Especially if the boss is outwardly rude / aggressive. I am saving this kid the trouble of a really awkward moment.
From experience, aggressive bosses tend to be aggressive for either one or both of the following: (1) personality (pedantic, hubris, etc.) and (2) self-centered (personal ambition/goals and juniors are there as a resource for the individual to achieve his/her goal). In these instances, there's no real value in creating a relationship. It's a purely symbiotic, transactional experience. You both get reps/deal flow/experience/comp at the expense of culture. Not to say culture and deal flow are mutually exclusive, but seems, more often than not, I've seen these two extremes. Any place you can get the reps/deal flow/experience/comp and culture is a place to stay.
Seems to be the case they do some pretty high profile deals in the $100mm’s and the person I’d work for literally told me they’re looking for someone to add value to them.
Definetly a selfish viewpoint but at least it’s honest. My thought was overtime you’d get to know them outside of work and earn their respect/build a relationship. Seems that me thinking too optimistically in most cases.
Have been in your place before and had the same quixotic hopes. Became more realistic that it would be a professional and transactional relationship and there's nothing wrong with that. Fill that void outside of work -- if anything, it's more of a salubrious differentiation of church and state. Best of luck my man/woman.
Couldn't agree more with both points. Especially the junior staff = resource to the aggressive boss. If you can identify it early, you can use it to your advantage / work around it because the relationship is so transparent. Likely will never be fun or a place you'd like to stay for the long-term, but for a few years, there's ways to make it work.
Also agree that if you're able to find a place that combines deal flow / experience with culture, it may be worth sticking around for a few more years than originally planned.
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