Recently got a dream job for a state school schlub like myself. Working as a generalist (Acq, AM, IR) analyst for a <$1B firm, been here less than six months.
I’m really close with my boss who is the coo of the firm, and if I were 22 still would be even closer. If it wasn’t obvious from that statement though he’s still living like he’s in college at ~45 and to put it plainly I can’t hang anymore.
Ex: we recently went golfing with a group of brokers, had a great time and I had no issue keeping up with the usual bs. However, the next stop was the casino and I made an excuse to bail.
For me, I know I can’t handle myself anymore and I know the consequences. It’s, for lack of a better term, hookers and blow until the sun rises or not going at all. My hangovers are so bad that I actually *cant* sleep for ~2-3 days afterwords and I turn into an unproductive, worthless, low energy employee for short stretch and it sucks.. but it is what it is.
This won’t be the last time that I deal with this and I’m just curious - have any of you dealt with a boss or culture that is not just into partying but taking it to the extreme every time?
I can stay out and drink often into the wee hours but just cannot do the binges anymore. I respect those who can and still wish I could.
I fear that I’ll slowly be pushed away from some important projects if I don’t partake. Maybe I’m just being paranoid and it’s chill that I don’t push it to the max every time we’re out but something tells me it’s different here.
Thanks for any/all advice. I worked my tail off to get here and would hate for this kind of thing to be a reason it didn’t work out.
I didn't know people in CRE partied like that, especially on the principal side...
It's important for career growth to spend time outside of work with the people who have a direct say over your trajectory. If that person is your COO and he does blow on the weekends and invites you out, sorry my man - you're at least the DD.
A wife and kids would solve your (and his) problems. But that's a drastic measure.
Lmao he does have a wife, and I've got a live-in girlfriend.
I hear you and trust me it is not for everyone living that type of lifestyle. I moved from brokerage to the principal side on a deal team almost 2 years ago and I have similar experiences. I only have 7 people in my office and 4 of us are on the deal team/acquisitions and they all love to go out even my boss who is ~60 yrs old. We do a lot of lunches/dinners with brokers/investors/3rds/etc. which we are drinking every time. It can be a lot some times but I am single now which makes it easier to go out and not have to worry about a girlfriend at home. It can be a lot for even me some times, but I live for the fun times and getting out of the office to meet with other people we work with.
I do have a more extreme example of one of my closest friends in the biz that I went to undergrad with (I'm in socal btw) and he works for a small group and his boss almost sounds like yours. Their office is on a harbor and at least once a week they will party on the boss's boat, some of the stories I've heard sound like a movie. He is a major party guy and he loves it but he's said that he's had a younger guy that left bc he didn't like the culture.
Anyway my advice to you is ride it out if you like the actual work and if its too much start interviewing elsewhere. If you're absolutely tired of it I would just tell your boss how you feel honestly and let him know that lifestyle really doesnt fit you, just my 2 cents though.
If that were all that went on (lunches/dinners/golf/etc) I'd be gravy - again have no issue with a couple to "a few too many" a few days a week and getting out and just having a time with people we do or want to do business with.
I can't, however, go to a conference and be out until 4 in the morning for three straight days. I wish with every fiber in my body I could still do this and perform at work/socially, but my body (and brain) have just said no at this point. It feels pretty b*tch-made but again, it's just not worth it anymore.
It's a bit of a 180 from my previous life, so it really sucks. Will try to ride it out and find a happy-medium, and make my work something they can't live without. If I start to get thrown into the nerd bucket though it's probably time to look elsewhere.
I wouldn't say it's across CRE. My company is actually the opposite. Principals aren't big drinkers, we hardly have happy hours, etc. I sometimes wish I was in a more lively team but am also pretty happy that I can party on my own time and not have to worry about drinking on week nights when I really have no desire to.
It's also pretty easy to meet people for coffee/lunch to avoid getting stuck in happy hours as well
Sounds like a good gig from where I'm sitting. I would kill to just leave the partying to my non-work social life and be able to do it on my own terms.
The downside is, as someone who likes to get a little crazy when I do have fun (similar to how you mentioned), I often feel like I have to really separate my work personality from my real personality and basically keep to myself any fun I had over the weekend. Not a huge deal, but sometimes I envy teams that are like true friends outside of work so it's like going to see your buddies when you go to the office. Not sure which I'd prefer. About once a month I get forced into a few drinks for some dinner and I always wish it could be a lunch instead, so at the end of the day it's probably a net benefit to not have to do it more often.
Yea you are hurting yourself. At the end of the day people liking you is gold in any company. Trust me, you don't want to be known as the not fun boring guy. It may seem childish to you but this guy is way above you in pay grade and once it's locked in his mind that you are the buzz kill of the office you will be left out of after work stuff, non company group chats etc.
I feel you. I wouldn't say I've been thrown into that bucket and not really trending there, only been here a short time. It's an interesting dynamic in the office - outside of our CEO who is into the social side but not the extreme side, I'm the only one who joins on these outings.
Using the golf trip as an example, it was only us three that went out. I probably killed 10-12 drinks on the course and was by no means a slouch, but yeah headed out after that. We also had an outing the day before that started ~1 and I stayed out until ~7, had about the same number of drinks. That was a Wednesday, keep in mind.
If that level of socializing gets me thrown in the no-fun zone then I guess this firm isn't for me, but hopefully there's a happy medium I can find.
That's insane lol, how many other junior people are there at the company seems small if just you two? I think you can just have less drinks lol or have more water in between. Do you think if you had 5-6 it would be fine?
Any advice for someone already there. I’ve never fit in, never get invited to after work events, and every convo I have with anyone is awkward.
I feel for you, tough to get out of that cycle - nobody wants to willingly rearrange the standings on the tree.
Best advice I can give is to get some counseling if this is truly bothering you, nothing I'll say here will hold any weight to that.
On the flip side you could have a boss who will be on a Zoom call with you until 12 midnight Friday and will send emails at all hours of the night (even on weekends). If you aren’t responding and working the hours he will push you off projects.
Never seen him have more than 1 glass of wine at a HH so idk what his deal is.
Yeah this is the opposite end of the spectrum I don't envy either. I'm stoked I have a boss who isn't a boring drone, don't get me wrong.
Does your boss let you expense the hookers and blow?
I can't imagine any nose would be fed on my wallet
Totally get where you're coming from! I used to be the life of the party, too, but adulting hit differently. Balancing work and play is crucial. I've found that being upfront about my limits with colleagues keeps things cool. However, it's OK to unwind sometimes, so check out South Carolina Bachelorette Party for some ideas. Good luck!
To be clear, this culture is not standard across the industry, but its also not uncommon.
It pays to be well liked, but that doesn't mean you have to go as hard as everyone else. Join them for drinks, but go slower than the others. Do the first shot, not the fifth. Nobody is going to look down on you for saying no to a line. You can still be present and enjoy yourself without going as hard as the CEO who thinks he's still 21.
I'm taking this route for better or worse.
Again, body and particularly brain have dictated I'm just not one of the lucky bastards who can hit the titter until 4 am and wake up by 8 to go swindle investors or talk shop. Not in the cards, gonna have to be okay with that.
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