Stay in Big 4 RE group, or go unpaid intern with a successful developer?
Hey all,
I have some questions regarding career path. Currently I am a staff position at a Big 4 in their transaction Real Estate department and been here almost a year. Basically a lot of my work is audit support, with occasional PPA and valuation work. The compensation is great but the big corporate structure is incredibly tedious and not to mention the hours during busy season are not exactly fun. A mentor of mine who I have kept in contact with recently offered me an unpaid internship with his firm. A lot of showing me the ropes and helping out putting presentations together for client meetings, etc. While that seems way more interesting, and eventually where I want to be, I can't help but to feel a little cautious as A) it is unpaid and I dont know how long he would plans to have me there and B) I could do all this work and just have him drop me like a rock if times get bad.
I understand you have to take risks, but trying to decided if it is worth it or I should just stick it out at my current job a little longer.
Where do you live?
Well if you're unpaid I doubt he'll drop you like a rock. A few things. How old are you? If your still fairly young, its worth considering. How many properties does he develop a year? If you help out on some developments, this is good resume building experience.
You have to have a realistic game plan if you are going to quit your well paid job for an unpaid internship. I would strongly advise that you not take it without understanding how to utilize the internship and what you want to do. Remembber, real estate generally pays poorly unless you get on in a perfect situation, work at the nation's most elite firms in the best positions, or are an entrepreneur. So don't expect that you'll quickly close the gap with the salary you're making in Big 4 audit.
To answer some of these questions, I am 23 years old out of the Phoenix area. Im not sure how many he develops a year but he does have a successful track record. He is currently working on a big condo project in the downtown area. I do not know all the fine details of the total size of their portfolio but he has been doing this for awhile now and made it through the downturn so he is definitely not inexperienced.
You need to take him out to lunch figure out all of those questions above 1. Do you have enough saved to live for half a year? 2. Would this be an unpaid internship with an option to be hired in the future or is this a probono gig without a defined time frame? 3. What is he building now, whats in his development pipeline, whats his source of equity 4. How many people work for him? 5. Have you tried to find other jobs else where and this is some form of desperate last resort? I'd assume you could at least work your way into a small development shop if you search for the next year (and are willing to leave phoenix)
How will you live?
Maybe there's a way you can work the internship part-time--nights, weekends, lunch break, holidays, etc.
I second doing it on the side, part-time if it does not violate any non-competes with the Big 4. Offer to be a 1099 Consultant if that will work as it gets you paid and does not create formal payroll liabilities for him.
Good suggestion, dc. So...I imagine being in phoenix is a little tougher with stuff like this BC the career opps aren't as great as other markets. I hired a first year analyst that came out of a big four background. He didn't have RE exp but he was smart, target ed, and knew how to use excel. I think we started him at $65K plus 15% bonus and benefits.
We just made a very similar move/comp for an guy in the southwest US
I would keep my job unless you really see doing real estate for the rest of your career. A successful developer should be able to pay you. If you don't value your time and skill who will? You have a big 4 firm on your resume so I would consider paid opportunities first.
Even if your current job is not fun, it would be better to navigate from a big four firm than to take a gamble on an internship that you may or may not like and may not hire you. If it goes bad, then you have to look for a job with going from a big 4 firm to an internship on your resume.
Thanks for all the insight. I do see real estate as a career path. I eventually want to create neighborhoods and communities. Staying in PHX would be the most ideal as I am familiar with the market plus all my family and friends are here. I would only move if it was a prime location. I have always been told do what you love and the money will come.....buttttt i sometimes think that isn't always the most practical way to go about things haha
Second prospie's advice. I worked at an accounting firm - not a big four - and there was a kid with 5 experience that got a CFO position at a small (20 person) firm.
I'd echo what the others pretty much already said. A reputable, well capitalized firm will pay you. The work you do now is different, but you have some real estate experience, interest in the industry, and the Big 4 branding. Collectively, thats enough to transition to a different part of the business if you are persistent and patient. You shouldn't have to take an unpaid internship to do it.
As everyone else has said, if this guy is truly a great developer, he should be able to pay you at least a stipend. Pheonix is one of the fastest growing cities in the country. There continues to be an inflow of people and more and more real estate is needed to support this growth. So I am sure you will have plenty of opportunities, don't think this guy is the only developer around.
As a general rule, most unpaid internships never turn into paying jobs. That has also been my experience, FWIW.
I was lucky enough to have an unpaid internship turn into a full time job. Similarly, my ceo was my mentor and the reason why I left my previous job. It also allowed me to apply to other jobs with a great name on my resume. I ended up being able to use the job offer at a different prestigious nyc shop to get a full time job offer.
@"Tronaker" PM me. (I don't have enough SBs) I am a RE development consultant in the Phoenix area and may have some insight if it is the project/developer I am thinking of.
i cant send you a message yet..... dont have enough points!!!
Really you are out of phoenix? i dont see too many of our kind around here hahah
No. Stick with the Big4.
butttt this job isnt exactly what I want, Id rather be apart of the deals and the process, rather than just reviewing models and shit
Both put real estate on your resume, one is a Big4 and is paying you. The other is a no-name guy that no one outside of your area has heard of and he isn't even going to be paying you. "Reviewing models and shit" is how you pay your dues, you don't just walk in the door and start making deals.
It looks like you are motivated to throw away a good opportunity, so do what you are going to do.
I agree with Another here and the vast majority of the other people on here. I would wait for something more credible to roll around, appreciate what you have while you've got it ( a big 4 on your resume is a good thing), gain as much experience as you can in your current role and work your butt off. You've been there for a year? Maybe two? That's nothing. And if you think you will be doing more than "just reviewing models and shit" with this developer, I think you are kidding yourself. Lastly, I hate to break it to you, but even the most senior guys in my shop (a multi B PE firm) review models as part of the IC process. It's a pretty important part of the business.
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