Which "CRE Adventure" Makes the Most Sense for Me?
Background:
I graduated undergrad in the spring of 2019 from a top-ranked state school with a non-finance degree. I then accepted a role at a prominent NYC Biglaw firm, where I sold my soul for two years as a paralegal in exchange for a recommendation letter to any law school I wanted and a law clerk position once in law school. However, I absolutely hated Biglaw and had no interest in becoming a corporate lawyer. Instead, I discovered that I loved real estate finance and wanted to pursue a career in CRE.
Thanks to aggressive networking, I was able to pivot into a role at a well-known family office/REPE firm in NYC working under the firm's COO/General Counsel/CCO. Since it is a smaller, family-run firm, I wear many hats and essentially act as my boss' right-hand man, doing a little bit of everything. While I love my current role and would love to stay with my firm for the long term, my ultimate goal is to become an investment professional, rather than doing an operations-type job. Due to the low turnover at my firm and the state of the current CRE market, I do not foresee any deal making positions opening up any time soon. My firm has agreed to reimburse 20% of the cost of grad school if I attend part-time while working full-time as long as I stay in my role throughout the duration of the program.
Goal:
I want to land an Associate-level acquisitions/originations role at a REPE or RE Debt fund in NYC. Considering my background, which "CRE Adventure" makes the most sense for me?
Adventure #1: Apply to NYU’s part-time MBA or MSRE program and work full-time
Pros:
-My firm will pay for a portion of the program
-A paycheck will still hit my bank account biweekly
-I can keep gaining direct CRE/REPE experience (although not direct deal experience)
-NYU has two solid part-time grad school options
Cons:
-It will take 2-3 years part-time to obtain a degree, and I am worried about being pigeonholed as a "back office" guy by the time I graduate
-I will not be able to have any internships while doing the program part-time and working
Adventure #2: Apply to full-time MBA/MSRE programs
Pros:
-I could use the full-time grad programs to “reset” my career
-I can apply to internships and have more time to network
Cons:
-My firm will not cover any costs if I attend full-time
-There is the opportunity cost of not working and getting paid for 2 years
-I will miss out on more direct CRE/REPE experience at my firm
Adventure #3: Start networking now for Analyst/Senior Analyst positions and work my way up
Pros:
-I will save myself a good chunk of change and not have to pay for grad school
-I can ideally obtain a role as an investment professional faster
Cons:
-Job market is not great right now, and it will be tough to land a role (especially considering my limited deal experience and finance background)
-I will be ~4 years out of undergrad working as an Analyst/Senior Analyst while my peers are currently at the Associate level
Based on the most helpful WSO content, here's my take on your situation:
Adventure #1: This option allows you to continue gaining experience while also furthering your education. The financial support from your firm is a big plus. However, the concern about being pigeonholed is valid. It's important to make sure you're gaining the right kind of experience and not just time in the industry.
Adventure #2: This option could indeed be a good "reset" for your career, allowing you to focus fully on your education and networking. However, the financial implications are significant, and you'd be stepping away from direct experience for a couple of years.
Adventure #3: This option is the most direct route to your goal, but as you've noted, it could be challenging given the current job market and your limited deal experience.
In the end, the best path depends on your personal circumstances and risk tolerance. If you're eager to move up quickly and are willing to take on the risk and challenge, Adventure #3 could be the way to go. If you're more risk-averse and want to ensure you're continually gaining experience and education, Adventure #1 might be best. Adventure #2 seems like a middle ground, offering a fresh start but at a significant cost.
Remember, there's no one-size-fits-all answer here. It's about weighing the pros and cons and deciding what you're most comfortable with. Good luck!
Sources: Dream Jobs in CRE, Baruch MBA vs. NYU MSRE, So you want to work in CRE Debt? Here are the options...
If you can i would say go full time MBA
If you want to stay do part time MSRE at NYU
plenty of people in the program who are in the industry and since you will be taking night classes mostly you will be in classes with people with more work experience/in the industry.
Can you please explain why you would choose part-time NYU MSRE over part-time NYU MBA?
Shorter -MBA def opens up more doors tho.
If you are dead set on real estate I don't think Schack is a bad option at all
#3. And if possible learn all you can about construction.
And all those RE professionals in those classes (and the profs) are potential references/contacts for your next opportunity.
Thank you for the advice. My firm is vertically integrated, so I have tried to pick up nuggets of wisdom from the development team whenever possible.
What would be the steps you would do to accomplish learning about construction?
#3 Senior Analyst v. Associate doesn't really matter much. Some people get promoted early due to others leaving, some have overinflated titles and may be a VP at the same age due to firm titles it all depends.
Let me know if you have any questions about NYUs MSRE program, currently in the program now.
Thanks - PM’d you.
Working at a family office, I know firsthand how illogical titles can be, which is why I want to avoid being too under-titled compared to my peers if I switched roles.
I think, investment guys, if they are successful, eventually run an operating business. Don’t ever think your current experience is for not.
I have no regrets regarding my career path. I would have never discovered CRE if I did not work in Biglaw. If I never worked in Biglaw, then I would have never been hired to my current role, which has afforded me such unique access to senior management at my firm. My long-term goal is to run my own shop, so I am eternally grateful to learn how the business works from the industry veterans.
What do you do for your current firm? You say you wear many hats, but it sounds like acquisitions/investments isnt one of them. Is there any potential to work on that side of the business at your current firm?
Ultimately your decision comes down to time (how quickly you want to switch into an investment role) and money:
Adventure #1: I like this option the least because in my opinion, it doesn't do much in helping you switch to an investment role. The whole point of the NYU MSRE program is to do internships in similar types of roles that you wish to pursue for fulltime, but if you are unable to do internships in investment roles during your MSRE, then the MSRE doesn't really help you more than where you are today. NYU MSRE is not HBS... it's not even NYU Stern. Firms will not look at your resume and see NYU MSRE and immediately be impressed and even going to an M7 business school doesnt mean you will be landing interviews and offers at all your desired firms. The point of going to an M7 business school is to network and obtain an internship at your desired firm and then converting it to FT. Also, 20% reimbursement although is something, isn't very much. The program is like $160k-$200k in total. 20% is only ~$40k.
Adventure #2: If money/student loans isn't a problem, then this path works and is the same path that I chose. I was working middle/back office at a wall street bank and decided to pursue NYU MSRE full time. Ultimately did 2 internships (one in REPE and the other in debt/equity advisory) during the day and attended classes at night (I actually skipped most classes or left class early). Upon graduating I had an offer from an MM REPE shop and a top institutional developer. For both these offers, the MSRe and internships helped me land the interview, but my ability to financial model and crush the case studies got me the offers. So regardless of what option you decide, be able to build a full model from scratch like the back of your hand. I didn't interview at a single firm that did not put me through a modeling test. As for an MBA, if you are able to get into a top MBA program, then I would do that
Adventure #3: This also works, but may take longer depending on the responsibilities at your firm. It is quite possible that your current role is good enough to at least land you interviews. If that is the case, you should buy an investment modeling course and learn how to model, but then add that course on your resume to signal to the firms that you know how to model and then hopefully they put you through a financial modeling test, you ace it, and get an offer. However, you are correct that the current job environment will make this very difficult in the short term (maybe the next 2-3 years)
Without getting too specific, I would characterize my current role as middle/back office. On the more glamorous end, I get to attend investment committee and do some basic asset management/capital markets duties. On the other hand, I also do a lot of mindless legal/compliance work.
It is definitely possible for me to switch roles if a spot opened up. Senior management has either gone to ivies or been with the family for decades. I just hit the 2 year mark and was planning on bringing up my career aspirations during my annual review. I did not mention switching roles sooner because it would have looked like I only took my job as a stepping stone to break into the industry. I know you advised against part-time NYU MSRE, but what are your thoughts on part-time NYU Stern MBA?
All in all, thanks to feedback like yours, I think I have been underselling myself and I should be focusing on crushing a modeling test/networking vs. grad school to land an acquisitions/originations position.
I don't have experience with NYU Stern, so someone else may have better advice, but my thoughts are similar. The point of these programs MBA/MSRE are to intern at the firm you want to work at and then convert into a FT role. I have a close family member currently attending Wharton MBA and another friend attending HBS and even for them the whole point of their program is to intern at their desired firms. In my opinion, if you are unable to intern at another firm, then the program is a waste
The only counter point to the above that I have - NYU Schack is an incredibly well known program in NY. You can pretty much throw a dart at any firm and find a graduate. The on campus recruiting may not be MBA, but you can open the door with good ole’ fashioned networking.
Be advised, some corporate firms don’t know what to do with MS students. They have buckets of recruiting for MBA firms and Undergrad. But don’t always know where an MS fits.
Plus 1 on throwing a dart in NYC comment. If you are dead-set on a grad degree and you don't do a very strong national MBA and you want NYC RE - NYU MSRE is one of the better games in town given its super-nyc-centric alumni network. Caveat - provided you are ready to bootstrap the opportunity finding process as mentioned above.
Adventure #4: part time MBA and recruit for internships and/or associate positions, while still working at your current firm and getting the education stipend. If you decide to leave, prepare to pay back some or prorated amount back to your company. You will have the option to stay at a better role or leave. That’s when your company will nut up and show you what you are worth to them.
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