Adding an MBA to a JD
I'm a senior in Undergrad at a Top 15 school planning on going to Law School. I took the LSAT and got pretty strong score (>172) and have a strong GPA so I think I'll have a strong shot at some top law schools. Lately I've been considering going for a dual MBA/JD degree but am not sure I'll be competitive for the MBA part given that I won't have a ton of work experience.
Anyone know what its like to apply to MBA programs if you're already accepted to their JD program, generally talking about T10 or so MBA programs.
What is "not a ton of work experience", exactly?
You can apply after 1L. You'll have to sit the GMAT. Consider going to a school that has a 3 year jd/mba program.
Some research experience part time during undergrad as well as some (~1 year) after graduation.
One of my friends is in a kind of similar position, also interested.
Your profile is competitive for the T14 schools. Apply and see where you get in. If you crush it and wind up at HLS or SLS, you should take a hard look at the MBA programs.
You'll boost your chance at success by getting a competitive business internship after your 1L year (which is great, because no BigLaw firm is giving you an internship that year anyway). You'd do even better to get an internship between undergrad and law school.
This needs to be a brand-name employer for it to have maximum impact for your intra-university MBA application. In finance, this is uncommon, although entirely doable. Recruit for a summer analyst position in IBD or PE as a senior. You simply need to sell your story; I wouldn't go with the law school route, I'd say you're doing a one-year Master's (and thus would be looking for a job starting the following year).
If you fail with that path, network with the BB banks aggressively during the fall of your first 1L term. They will occasionally take associate interns from law schools, I've seen it. The EBs are much less likely; they have leaner classes and fewer resources to be able to 'take a chance' on a nontraditional candidate like that.
Most business schools will make you apply for the dual degree during your third term (first 2L term) in law school. With that internship under your belt you have real ammo for your story: you want to build on your solid technical understanding of the legal mechanics of business by pursuing a management degree that will allow you be an operator in the industry of your choice.
I recommend the opposite of what LongandShortofit said. The schools with a 3-year combined program really don't carry as much respect, and as far as I know, all of them require you to apply for it before matriculating since the credit requirement has been truncated so much to the point that all six of your semesters are split between the law and business schools.
Just a few high level thoughts:
1) Start with your end goal. Do you really want to do something in business? Or do you want to focus on law? What's the end goal and does a MBA really help you get there?
2) You probably know this already, but law school is HIGHLY competitive during the program, whereas the MBA is more laid back once you get in. Of course you are probably a smart person, but realize that you are competing with extremely talented and driven people. If you're not in the top 10-25% of your law class, it will be very difficult to land a position at a top law firm. Adding MBA coursework to the mix will make getting a high rank more difficult.
3) The financial commitment from doing a joint program will be huge unless you get significant financial aid. Are you ready to have $350-400k in debt? What happens if things don't pan out, can your family support you?
Personally, I would get the JD first and retain the option to get a MBA down the road.
"I'm a senior in Undergrad at a Top 15 school planning on going to Law School."
Jesus, why?
Law School to Business School? (Originally Posted: 08/25/2010)
Hi,
I'm currently a 3rd year law student at a T50 law school. I pulled a 3.7 in ugrad from an ivy, but majored in Spanish and Political Science. Right now, I'm pulling a 3.2 in law school. The past couple summers, I have worked for USDOJ in competitive offices such as the USAO & SEC.
I had never considered a career in finance before, but during my 2nd year of law school, I took a couple of securities and financial law courses. Since then, I have focused my degree on business and financial law, and have taken courses on accounting as well. I have no experience working for a bank or other private financial institution.
So, my question is, what are my chances of landing some sort of middle office job at a bank and, is it possible to work my way up to either trading or IB? Both of them interest me. Alternatively, would it be a good idea to work for a couple of years and then apply to business school and then try to break in from there?? (note: I've had a free ride on schooling so far, so please don't address the monetary cost of business school).
Any insight would be appreciated! I'm just wondering if this is crazy to pursue or not...
From summer experience, I know that you would probably will be able to land a job in compliance or legal. From there, you could network yourself into trading, PE or asset management. During my internship, I met a lot of VPs who had worked in other divisions (they usually had kids or some other hobby that took precedent over their job). I am unsure about IBD, since that division is always more prestigious than the others. You may try to do IBD for middle market bank, like PNC.
If you earned a 3.7 GPA from an Ivy, why aren't you at a tier 1 law school?
Really? I would actually think that it would be extremely difficult to go from somewhere like compliance, a BO/MO job, to prestigious areas of finance like trading, PE, etc. I have often heard that once you're in compliance, you can be pigeon-holed and it may be very difficult to exit it. However, I'd love to hear some comments about this.
Thanks for the reply and advice!
Did horrible on the LSATs. :-/ Which is funny because I got in the 1500s on my SATs. Just something about that test that tripped me up and I paid for it, I guess. Currently, my law school is ranking in the mid-30s.
Now I'm just trying to find a way to develop a career path toward finance that finally really interests me, but I'm not sure if it's too late. Would a MBA help at all in a few years? And is it possible to move from a middle market to a BB eventually?
Hey Sarah, you should also check out jdOasis.com....we relaunched recently and are growing daily over there ...there are many more lawyers on there as well.
Thanks!
i've heard this one before...disgruntled law school student second-guesses legal career and explores other options. i'll start by telling you what you should do and then what you can do to achieve what you want.
what you should do: don't deviate from a long-term legal career. right now, its your most lucrative option. take advantage of your law degree. working for the DOJ or Big Law isnt a bad way to start your career.
what you can do to achieve what you want: from what i gather, you want to maybe segue from a legal back-office career to a front-office role at an investment bank. this is possible. i think the path of least resistance would be from 'legal dept -> ib at VP level'. but this is highly improbable, the odds are def stacked against you. forget about trading; modern trading is actually very technical and it takes years to develop the necessary skill set.
in general, modern recruiting in IB is highly systematic. basically, the only points of entry are undergrad OCR and b-school OCR.
i def DO NOT recommend going to b-school (unless you get into a top 10 school). i know you mentioned cost isnt an issue. but time is. trust me, you would setting yourself up for a disadvantage by spending 2 yrs in the classroom instead of 2 yrs in the field. not to mention the pain of going through the application process all over again. you said cost wasnt an issue, but i dont understand that. are you saying you have a source of funds for that? i am guessing parents? not trying to sound rude, but that means they would be the ones potentially wasting their money. besides all that, recruiters may question your judgement and commitment.
one more thing: after reading your post, its pretty obvious youre not totally sure were you want to take your career. i mean, there was a time when you were interested in a legal career. but after taking a few courses in securities and finance law, you are now interested in a career in IB. are you sure youre interested in securities and finance, and not securities and finance law? bc it would be much easier for you to have a rewarding career in securities and finance law.
i have a couple of friends and family who have been in your shoes and contemplated the same thing. its so typical to me when i hear from law students or law grads that they dont intend to stay in law or even practice law after graduation. you even see it on these forums.
so, i'll just wrap up my comments with a questions i want you think about: do you want to sacrifice a lucrative career path for a career path that MAY OR MAY NOT be more lucrative and that is also WAY HARDER to break into?
Wow, thanks for the insight and comments!!
First, I only mentioned the b-school cost because I did not want responses to get side-tracked discussing tuition added onto law school, ugrad, etc., because that is an issue that I have already noted and am thinking about.
Second, regarding this being a spontaneous decision, it was one that I gradually arrived at after taking business and securities courses throughout my second year. Like many law students, I started school not knowing what direction I wanted to take my career. That's why schools offer a variety of courses, so students can get exposure to different fields and try to develop an interest in particular ones. The benefit to a JD is that it is a versatile degree, and it does allow movement in a variety of directions. But yes, you are right, the classes that I took definitely developed the interest in a field I had little exposure to before.
However, it was my summer spent at the SEC that really solidified the decision through hands on, practical experience. Getting to see the ins and outs of the industry from an enforcement POV was inspiring, however, it also helped me develop an interest in looking into whether I was in a position to pursue a career as one of the people actually making the deals/transactions, not just drawing them up (don't get me wrong, this is interesting work too, but I just found that being on the front line seems like something I would like to look into).
I just want to know if it was eventually possible to transition from one to the other, the obstacles I would face, and my chance at success. I do enjoy securities law and it is definitely a field that I am continuing to pursue and I can definitely see a future for myself in it; however I would also like to explore opportunities for myself in a more hands-on, front-office role.
And a key reason that I am asking is because, as a poster above notes, I have heard that once you are back-office, it is extremely difficult to make the leap toward the front. This concerned me and piqued my inquiry. :)
I understand that taking a couple classes may make envy a career or not. However, Business career is very vocational. You cannot learn too much in the classroom. You need to feel it to know it. Two more years in Business School will not give you the true story.
By being a lawyer for 3-4 years, you will accumulate more respect to make a lateral move. Also, even 2 yrs of experience in Law will open better MBA doors. Even if you get into Harvard after your Law degree, with no work experience, it would be tough to get an IB job.
i've heard that too.
the thing is that outside of IB, HF, PE, VC and MC, i cant think of any sexier or more lucrative careers than law.
you'll probably make the most money just sticking to law.
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