Best MSF program to work in Chicago
Hey,
I was wanting to you the best MSF program to attend if one wants to work in Chicago for a non-international student. I am interested in ER or AM.
Thanks,
I'd assume - WUSTL, Notre Dame, UIUC, and Michigan.
UIUC would be the main one. ND if you're interested in a more general business program. Michigan would also be a good choice. WUSTL will do the trick also.
TNA,
Thanks for responding - I was hoping you would jump on the post. Is there a reason the UIUC is mostly international? Does this limit the banks recruiting process since international and non-international recruiting seems to be different?
1.) I don't think it limits bank recruiting. The school is very large and there are a lot of great American candidates to choose from- in addition to some well-qualified foreign candidates who can basically function as Americans. The problem is that UIUC has always been a semi-target at best for many of the BBs. It is an excellent Big Ten university, but for some reason that has never quite cut it for HR to do front-office recruiting at MS, JPM, or Barclays.
2.) The international population in the CoB is mostly Chinese, according to my younger brother. It wasn't always this way. When I was at UIUC ~7 years ago, it was predominantly white Americans. This change may be due to PRC policy or how UIUC is perceived in China. 3.) The investment banks that do on-campus FO recruiting at UIUC are Citi, GS, RW Baird, and William Blair. That's about it AFAIK. 4.) If you're a native-born American, you need to do a very good job of double-checking your emails and cover letters. "I was wanting you to the best" and "The UIUC" make you sound like a foreigner.
The UIUC MSF program has gone through some ebbs and flows. I think the issue is that they had an MSF before most schools had the program and never got caught up in the whole placements race that goes on now. UIUC is always a very well respected program internationally and naturally draws a lot of international students. So you have very smart internationals comprising the majority of their class. Once you do that your placements take a hit and it becomes a cycle that is hard to break. Domestics also can feel isolated when you have the program made up of mainly Chinese students.
That being said, the program is great, places well if you are domestic and has a huge Chicago alumni base. I know a bunch of domestic UIUC MSF students who have gone through the program and ended up working in Chicago in banking or at banks. If you do well in the program and take advantage of OCR and networking you will do well. Another nice thing is you'll have limited competition since most people in your class will require sponsorship which will hurt them come recruiting time.
So if you want a top Chicago MSF program, 100% look at UIUC. PM if you want to talk on a more personal level as I can refer you to the adcom who deals with admissions or put you in contact with other domestics who did the program.
Blueshirt,
Thanks for your response. I had looked at the WUSTL program and figured it would have good placements in the midwest. IUIC, from my understanding is >90% international. Besides from those two, I wasn't sure if there were any other top programs that banks would do campus recruiting.
For the MFE/quant programs, Berkeley and CMU get a lot of placements into Chicago prop shops.
UChicago's MSFM and Northwestern's Analytics program is also worth mentioning.
Chicago has really gone HFT over the past 10-15 years. Knowing how to code or knowing stats and math really helps open doors here. I am not going to start a fight about MSF vs. MFE, but in the Chicago prop space, having some sort of quantitative background can really help.
If you can manage a 165Q on the GRE and if you meet their course requirements, UChicago's MSFM program will generally take you. MFEs will tell you that the program gets mediocre placements, but I think it may be a better option than an MSF program if you want to work for the Chicago prop shops. (It may not be better if you want to work for an insurance company like CNA.) Within the city of Chicago, UChicago generally gets more respect than Princeton or Harvard. Outside of Chicago, it's not H/Y/P, but you get the same network as any other ivy.
UIUC also has a great MSF program. But my take is that a placement into a prop shop is clearly an upside case, not the default, as I would argue it probably is for UChicago. Most Chicago prop shops (even Getco, Citadel, and Jump) recruit heavily at UIUC, but most do it through Engineering.
Hopefully I've given you a few things to think about. Full disclosure: I probably have a huge MFE bias, having done an MFE myself and STEM before that. I do think that to get your foot in the door at many firms in Chicago, it helps to have something a little more quantitative than ONLY a liberal arts or general finance background. Actuarial Science, Stats, Engineering, clearly CS, or an MFE in addition to a finance background can open a few more doors. And an MSF is a little more quantitative than a Finance undergrad, but I think you should try to do as much math as you can handle. Especially while you are still relatively young.
Illini is mostly right here. Chicago trading is mostly all high-frequency, and the best path to get there is either STEM undergrad or masters. UChicago MSFM does not publish placement information (always a red flag), but from what I've seen, they do ok with the chicago prop shops. Not too many though get into ER or AM. For that, get an MBA.
But major LOL@Illini claiming that in Chicago, UChicago gets more respect than Harvard. I laughed pretty hard at the blatant midwestern trolling.
Some great info here guys, thanks a lot.
Hopefully IlliniProgrammer and TNA, or anyone else with this knowledge, can find some time to possibly address my comment.
My question is whether it would it be beneficial to get an MSF to rebuild my GPA (~2.9 GPA now, will be around 3.1-3.2 at graduation. Really bad first 3 semester are to blame) and get more specific finance exposure? I'm in-state at UIUC, so that's specifically appealing to me. But would it be better to get work experience first and then try the MSF, or just go for it right away?
Some background: I'm an rising senior in industrial engineering at Purdue, which is one of the best schools in the country for my major. But based on my internships so far, I'm fairly certain I really don't want to make a career of this type engineering. I've been involved in business/econ courses through my major, as well as a certificate program in entrepreneurship, and I've really become interested in finance, specifically venture capital. However, I don't really have the grades or alumni base to really break in. I have some solid connections in Chicago at some Fortune 500 IT consulting companies for financial roles, which sound intriguing, but I don't want to get stuck at a body shopping firm doing outsourcing for the next 4 years. I've always been interested in finance, but growing up, people in my area just don't really consider that an option, so I never did.
Thanks again.
Notre Dame has a new PT MSF in Chicago. Might be worth a look while your work.
A 3.1-3.2 in engineering is nothing to scoff at- at least to folks who know- but yeah that could hurt if you are trying to go into finance.
An MSF at UIUC will get you into an insurance company or maybe a prop shop. It will be very difficult to land a VC type role.
You may actually have more success doing some sort of MS in CE or CS at UIUC and working for a startup upon graduation. One common route into VC is to work for a portfolio company.
This is right. VC is very tough to get into, even moreso than PE or HF. There aren't too many paths to get into it, but doing STEM and then working for a portfolio company is a common path.
Thanks for the feedback guys.
I didn't really expect a VC type role right off the bat, I know it's ridiculously hard to get those anywhere straight out of undergrad, no matter what school you're from. I was more considering it as an entryway into finance, since my background only marginally lends itself to that.
@"TNA" I'll have to look at the ND program placement. My dad and brother both attended ND for UG, so that might give me a leg up on any admissions hurdles. And I know it was mentioned earlier some of the MM IB banks recruiting at UIUC, which would be something I'd look into as well. I've seen it mentioned that IB (or possibly PE afterwards) can sometimes be a stepping stone towards VC, any thoughts on that?
@"IlliniProgrammer" and @"mbavsmfin" I've briefly considered an MS for CS and the like, but I haven't had a great amount of success or enjoyment in that during UG. However that's one of the things I was kindof steering away from, at least for a few years. I'm tired of all the STEM classes at the moment. And so far I've just run into the issue of actually finding possible portfolio companies to work for, as it seems like everyone thinks that an Industrial Engineering degree automatically means you're in manufacturing or supply chain.
The STEM requirements- both to graduate with an engineering degree and to be an engineer- aren't fun but they're worth it. They are this filter that keeps a lot of people out of this profession and keeps knowledgeable engineers in high demand and able to get more interesting and better paying jobs than the average joe. The Big Ten- especially Purdue and UIUC- are probably strongest at Engineering. So while I know it's a little grinding right now, the good news is that CS/Engineering is one of the few places where the real world is more fun to work in (at least as an engineer) than college was to study in. Finance and Accounting people don't get to say that.
That said, while I can't say I was passionate about coding like some people are, I did find some aspects of it enjoyable and interesting and intellectually challenging. You have to at least enjoy it at that level to make this work.
I have been waiting for @"mbavsmfin" to start pushing the Engineering -> MBA route, but I figured I will mention it because I think it's a good combination. If you become an Engineer who decides he hates Engineering, you can always get an MBA. The one problem with an MBA is that some non-MBAs think they all talk a good, well-spoken game but don't have the competence to back it up. An engineering degree completely crushes that stereotype.
Dolor tenetur voluptas explicabo delectus ipsam impedit at. Expedita aperiam consequatur vel ducimus. Ut eum ex magni nam. Perferendis ut similique ipsam ullam.
Minima maxime velit iste ut. Adipisci voluptatum ab omnis dolor non illo. Iusto placeat quia neque quia similique distinctio assumenda. Et nemo asperiores aspernatur illum quam iusto in.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...